Forums/Armchair-GM

Byram to VAN

Created by: vmach
Initial Creation Date: Jun 3, 2019
Published: Jun 4, 2019 at 2:32 pm
Team: 2019-20 Chicago Blackhawks
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Kämpf, David2$1,000,000
Perlini, Brendan3$1,250,000
Gusev, Nikita2$4,200,000
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
Turcotte, Alex3$925,000
Offer Sheets
Offer sheet annual average (AAV) is calculated by dividing the contract value by the lower of: 1. The contract length, or 2. Five years
PLAYERAAVCOMPENSATION
Gusev, Nikita$4,200,000
2020 2nd round pick
Trades
CHI
  1. Horvat, Bo
  2. 2019 1st round pick (VAN)
Additional Details:
CHI gets 10-Overall
VAN
  1. Saad, Brandon
  2. 2019 1st round pick (CHI)
Additional Details:
Nucks get 3-Overall and draft local sensation Bowen Byram
CHI
  1. 2019 1st round pick (OTT)
  2. 2019 6th round pick (COL)
CHI gets Turcotte with 4th OA
COL
  1. Perlini, Brendan
  2. Forsling, Gustav [RFA Rights]
  3. 2019 1st round pick (VAN)
  4. 2020 1st round pick (CHI)
Additional Details:
COL gets 10th OA and gets great player, like Boldy, Coufield, Duch or Krebs etc... Plus next years 1st and Perlini.
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2019
OTT
CHI
CHI
BOS
TBL
CHI
COL
ANA
2020
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
2021
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$83,000,000$71,066,795$0$6,977,500$11,933,205
Left WingCenterRight Wing
CHI
DeBrincat, Alex
$778,333
LW, RW
RFA - 1
VAN
Horvat, Bo
$5,500,000
C
UFA - 4
CHI
Strome, Dylan
$863,333
C
RFA - 1
Gusev, Nikita
$4,200,000
LW
UFA - 2
CHI
Anisimov, Artem
$4,550,000
C, LW
UFA - 2
CHI
Kane, Patrick
$10,500,000
RW, C
NMC
UFA - 4
CHI
Kubalik, Dominik
$925,000
LW
RFA - 1
CHI
Toews, Jonathan
$10,500,000
C
NMC
UFA - 4
CHI
Kahun, Dominik
$925,000
LW, RW, C
RFA - 1
CHI
Caggiula, Drake
$1,500,000
LW, C, RW
RFA - 1
CHI
Kämpf, David
$1,000,000
C, RW
RFA - 2
CHI
Wedin, Anton
$925,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
CHI
Keith, Duncan
$5,538,462
LD
NMC
UFA - 4
CHI
Jokiharju, Henri
$925,000
RD
RFA - 2
CHI
Lankinen, Kevin
$925,000
G
RFA - 1
CHI
Gustafsson, Erik
$1,200,000
LD
UFA - 1
CHI
Murphy, Connor
$3,850,000
RD
UFA - 3
CHI
Crawford, Corey
$6,000,000
G
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
CHI
Beaudin, Nicolas
$894,167
D
RFA - 3
CHI
Seabrook, Brent
$6,875,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 5
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Turcotte, Alex
$925,000
CHI
Kurashev, Philipp
$842,500
C, LW
RFA - 3
CHI
Koekkoek, Slater
$925,000
LD
RFA - 1

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Jun 4, 2019 at 2:34
#1
Club de Hockey 1909
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,401
Likes: 276
Golden Knights match, no way they let him slip away
ChiHawk liked this.
Jun 4, 2019 at 2:36
#2
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 6,992
Likes: 1,601
Interesting trade proposals, I like it. Get rid of Anisimov though and grab Eakin or Haula from Vegas for a 1 year rental. Vegas won't let Gusev walk, just grab Dzingel or Ferland.
vmach liked this.
Jun 4, 2019 at 2:41
#3
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,555
Likes: 581
Quoting: Club_de_Hockey_le_Canadien
Golden Knights match, no way they let him slip away


Going to be a tough summer for McCrimmon being left with that dirty cap situation. A lot of player movement must happen at least 3-4 trades just to have enough cap for Karlsson and Gusev
exo2769, vmach, ChiHawk and 1 other person liked this.
Jun 4, 2019 at 2:51
#4
exo2769
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,277
Likes: 1,365
I also think this an interest specific trade pattern. I don't actually think VAN wants Bowen though. I get he's local, but they literally just drafter Q Hughes. They play the same position. It's outside the box. I like Horvat as a #2C.
Jun 4, 2019 at 3:16
#5
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 395
Likes: 71
Quoting: Club_de_Hockey_le_Canadien
Golden Knights match, no way they let him slip away


No way Knights can pay Gusev over $4million, but neither should Chicago.
Jun 4, 2019 at 4:13
#6
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 421
Likes: 84
Lol. That's a hell no from Colorado. If Turcotte is there at 4, they're taking him.
Jun 4, 2019 at 4:27
#7
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 328
Likes: 89
Quoting: Club_de_Hockey_le_Canadien
Golden Knights match, no way they let him slip away


Its not going to be easy for them to justify $4.2M on a guy who played 0 games in North America. Especially with their cap situation.
They will need to get some help on D, especially if Miller gone. Karlsson is another #1 priority. Once that done they will need to clear about $8M in cap space. Sign Gusev and now you need to clear $12M.
Wow, hard to do. VGK did fine without Gusev, so I don't know if they want to spend this much money on him.

Second issue is that Gusev is not your fast north-south guy and Vegas is not the best match for him. he might not even work out, so its huge risk. Because you are not just spending money on him, you are actually will have to let a good player go, in order to afford him.
Jun 4, 2019 at 4:34
#8
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 328
Likes: 89
Quoting: Foppa21
Lol. That's a hell no from Colorado. If Turcotte is there at 4, they're taking him.


The question is, does he want to be in COL. He is a college guy, so its always a risk. The dude can simply say, sorry I like Chicago, I'm from there, I'd love to play there. And now COL will go to the next one. Cozens, Duch, Zegras, Krebs, Coufield, and the truth is they all good players and any one of them can end up better than other. So #4 vs #12 is not a huge difference this year. Even Turcotte and the rest are no much in between them.

And you honestly say, you won't take 2020 1st and 2 prospect (equivalent to 2nd rounders each) for the difference? I'd say its BS. COL is ready to win now and Turcotte is 2 years away, so Perlini can step right in on 3rd line with 20 goal production.
Jun 4, 2019 at 4:38
#9
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 328
Likes: 89
Quoting: PhillDaThrill
No way Knights can pay Gusev over $4million, but neither should Chicago.


CHI can afford it, maybe not 2 years, maybe 1. He will fit nicely with Anisimov and Kane. He can thread a needle with his passes.
He will do well on cycling team, like CHI. and probably be not so good on VGK.
Jun 4, 2019 at 4:42
#10
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 395
Likes: 71
Quoting: vmach
CHI can afford it, maybe not 2 years, maybe 1. He will fit nicely with Anisimov and Kane. He can thread a needle with his passes.
He will do well on cycling team, like CHI. and probably be not so good on VGK.


Why pay all that money and give up a pick for only 1 or 2 years? Signing Gusev only works if its 3 years or more.
Jun 4, 2019 at 4:52
#11
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 328
Likes: 89
Quoting: ChiHawk
Interesting trade proposals, I like it. Get rid of Anisimov though and grab Eakin or Haula from Vegas for a 1 year rental. Vegas won't let Gusev walk, just grab Dzingel or Ferland.


I see that I mismatched my lines accidentally, I meant to put AA and Kane and Gusev together. Just like in Panarin's days, they do play similar style, with Breadman having slightly better shot and Gusev better passing ability. I like what Gusev and AA did at the World Championship. Imagine adding Kane to that line. He is one of the best passers in the game, imaging him on cycling team. He is not such a good fit on VGK, unless they are completely revamping one of their lines to build around Gusev, but I don't think they can afford to be creative right now. Thea are in cap hell, the worse of all 31 teams.

I like Eakin and Haula, but AA still have those soft hands, with Gusevhe will do just fine. I just think he can easily stay with Hawks for next year while Turcotte gets ready. He strugled in CHI last year during the rebuilt, new coach, but found his game closer to the end of the year. I wouldn't trade for him to bring him in, but we already have him, he value is low now, so just keep him. Playing with Kane and Gusev he will raise his value and CHI might even trade him for 2nd rounder, or maybe keep him till the end of the contract. something like this.
Jun 4, 2019 at 5:01
#12
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 328
Likes: 89
Quoting: PhillDaThrill
Why pay all that money and give up a pick for only 1 or 2 years? Signing Gusev only works if its 3 years or more.


It obviously does, but it also depends on what he will be able to tolerate/demand. Its not like VGK wanted to burn their ELC on Gusev without playing a single game for them, But those were his demands, or he would have signed in KHL. I think he wants to get to UFA category asap and he is 27 already. So Chicago can win him over, by bringing him on 2 year deal, if he likes it here he will re-sign for longer term.

Bowman did screw up when he traded Panarin to Columbus. That was like a slap in the face. It ruined Chicago's credibility. Panarin was very vocal about it with russian media, he is a straight shooter and he never hid his emotions and he was really upset CHI traded him. Why do you think Mikheyev didn't come to Chi and went to cap strapped TOR instead? CHI need to redeem. (I'm happy Kubalik came over, thanks to Kahun and Kampf).
Jun 5, 2019 at 9:04
#13
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 421
Likes: 84
Quoting: vmach
The question is, does he want to be in COL. He is a college guy, so its always a risk. The dude can simply say, sorry I like Chicago, I'm from there, I'd love to play there. And now COL will go to the next one. Cozens, Duch, Zegras, Krebs, Coufield, and the truth is they all good players and any one of them can end up better than other. So #4 vs #12 is not a huge difference this year. Even Turcotte and the rest are no much in between them.

And you honestly say, you won't take 2020 1st and 2 prospect (equivalent to 2nd rounders each) for the difference? I'd say its BS. COL is ready to win now and Turcotte is 2 years away, so Perlini can step right in on 3rd line with 20 goal production.


Sure it's a risk, but if he comes out and says he likes Chicago, then he's telling the rest of the league that. You don't really hear many players doing that these days, do you? As for #4 vs. #12 not being all that different this year, yeah that tier is pretty deep, but why would they drop to #12 not knowing the guy they want will still be there? Especially for that package. You just said we are ready to win now, so why would we want the 2020 1st? As for Perlini, we don't need any more third line guys. We need a top-6 2C or a winger to step in and produce. That's not Perlini, who's sub-par with respect to CF% and who hasn't even eclipsed the 30 point mark in his career yet. So I'll say again, that's a hell no from the Avs.
Jun 5, 2019 at 2:12
#14
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 328
Likes: 89
Quoting: Foppa21
Sure it's a risk, but if he comes out and says he likes Chicago, then he's telling the rest of the league that. You don't really hear many players doing that these days, do you? As for #4 vs. #12 not being all that different this year, yeah that tier is pretty deep, but why would they drop to #12 not knowing the guy they want will still be there? Especially for that package. You just said we are ready to win now, so why would we want the 2020 1st? As for Perlini, we don't need any more third line guys. We need a top-6 2C or a winger to step in and produce. That's not Perlini, who's sub-par with respect to CF% and who hasn't even eclipsed the 30 point mark in his career yet. So I'll say again, that's a hell no from the Avs.


Wow, seriously? why would you need a 2020 1st? because that can give you top forward or D at the TDL. Look at what happened last year.
Also Perlini played like 35 games or so on 2nd line in CHI scoring 17 goals. So he can be 2nd, in fact he will be better on 2nd offence than a 3rd. I was just being conservative.
Jun 5, 2019 at 3:18
#15
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 421
Likes: 84
Quoting: vmach
Wow, seriously? why would you need a 2020 1st? because that can give you top forward or D at the TDL. Look at what happened last year.
Also Perlini played like 35 games or so on 2nd line in CHI scoring 17 goals. So he can be 2nd, in fact he will be better on 2nd offence than a 3rd. I was just being conservative.


Take a look at what Ottawa did with the first that they traded us, they kept the 2018 1st because it was a known quantity. A 2020 1st, while potentially decent value, is unknown. You have no idea what value you're getting. Might get you a UFA at the deadline, but we also have our own pick for that. Furthermore, after Kakko and Hughes, Byram and Turcotte are tier 2, with the other players you listed at tier 2.5 if not 3. So if I'm Joe, I'm taking the known value and holding onto pick #4.

That's great that you like Perlini, but again, he's not a need for the Avs. He's an average middle-six winger who gets offensive zone starts for the most part and generally can't control the puck. Just look at his stats. The Avs need a strong two-way centerman or an offense creating winger. Perlini solves neither of those needs.

So to sum it up, we're getting an arguably less promising draft prospect at #12, an unknown quantity in the 2020 1st (not saying it's not valuable), a lower tier prospect, and a defensive liability in Perlini for what could be a top-2 defenseman in Byram or a top 2C in Turcotte. So yeah, that's a no for me.
Jun 5, 2019 at 4:37
#16
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 328
Likes: 89
Quoting: Foppa21
Take a look at what Ottawa did with the first that they traded us, they kept the 2018 1st because it was a known quantity. A 2020 1st, while potentially decent value, is unknown. You have no idea what value you're getting. Might get you a UFA at the deadline, but we also have our own pick for that. Furthermore, after Kakko and Hughes, Byram and Turcotte are tier 2, with the other players you listed at tier 2.5 if not 3. So if I'm Joe, I'm taking the known value and holding onto pick #4.

That's great that you like Perlini, but again, he's not a need for the Avs. He's an average middle-six winger who gets offensive zone starts for the most part and generally can't control the puck. Just look at his stats. The Avs need a strong two-way centerman or an offense creating winger. Perlini solves neither of those needs.

So to sum it up, we're getting an arguably less promising draft prospect at #12, an unknown quantity in the 2020 1st (not saying it's not valuable), a lower tier prospect, and a defensive liability in Perlini for what could be a top-2 defenseman in Byram or a top 2C in Turcotte. So yeah, that's a no for me.


Its #10 not 12. and secondly you make it sound like there is such thing as too many 1st round drafts. 10th gets one of of Duch, Coufield, Krebs, Boldy all are good and similar to Turcotte value. The only reason I want him because he is local boy, that is all. #4 thru #10 is not huge difference this year, and def worth 2nd Wing and Mid 1st rounder in 2020. The agrument is if you really need that exlosive 1D than yes, Byram is your guy at 3, but 4-10 its all good, and either can be a bust, even Turcotte, he already had a serious injury at the age 17, so you know.
Jun 5, 2019 at 5:20
#17
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 421
Likes: 84
Quoting: vmach
Its #10 not 12. and secondly you make it sound like there is such thing as too many 1st round drafts. 10th gets one of of Duch, Coufield, Krebs, Boldy all are good and similar to Turcotte value. The only reason I want him because he is local boy, that is all. #4 thru #10 is not huge difference this year, and def worth 2nd Wing and Mid 1st rounder in 2020. The agrument is if you really need that exlosive 1D than yes, Byram is your guy at 3, but 4-10 its all good, and either can be a bust, even Turcotte, he already had a serious injury at the age 17, so you know.


It's never a bad thing to have more than one first round draft pick, all I'm saying is that it's an unknown piece in terms of value. That and there's no guarantee the guy they want, and I assure you that there are one or two guys that they WANT, will be there at #10. The 2020 1st is a great add and it's probably more than enough in terms of value, but I think they take the known pick at #4 instead of dropping down to #10 and a mid-first pick in 2020. And I still don't think Perlini's a top 6 guy, but that's just me.
Jun 5, 2019 at 5:43
#18
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 328
Likes: 89
Quoting: Foppa21
It's never a bad thing to have more than one first round draft pick, all I'm saying is that it's an unknown piece in terms of value. That and there's no guarantee the guy they want, and I assure you that there are one or two guys that they WANT, will be there at #10. The 2020 1st is a great add and it's probably more than enough in terms of value, but I think they take the known pick at #4 instead of dropping down to #10 and a mid-first pick in 2020. And I still don't think Perlini's a top 6 guy, but that's just me.


Blackhawks just interviewed 6 or 7 guys for their 3rd overall pick. That shows you how deep this draft is. But if this trade doesn't happen I think you will not be getting Turcotte anyways, as CHI takes him at 3.
Jun 5, 2019 at 6:42
#19
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 421
Likes: 84
Quoting: vmach
Blackhawks just interviewed 6 or 7 guys for their 3rd overall pick. That shows you how deep this draft is. But if this trade doesn't happen I think you will not be getting Turcotte anyways, as CHI takes him at 3.


They're doing their due diligence, as well they should. Top-5 picks don't happen every year for a team...unless of course, you're the Oilers. But I guarantee they'd rather be at 3 and have their choice than be at 10. Same is true for the Avs. As for not getting Turcotte, the Avs made it to the western conference finals this year. A top-5 pick is just the cherry on top. I'll be more than happy with Byram or Dach
Jun 6, 2019 at 10:53
#20
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 328
Likes: 89
Quoting: Foppa21
They're doing their due diligence, as well they should. Top-5 picks don't happen every year for a team...unless of course, you're the Oilers. But I guarantee they'd rather be at 3 and have their choice than be at 10. Same is true for the Avs. As for not getting Turcotte, the Avs made it to the western conference finals this year. A top-5 pick is just the cherry on top. I'll be more than happy with Byram or Dach


Yes, they are doing a due diligence, and you know why, because they want to know if those players want to play for them or not. Last thing you want is to draft a player in top 10 and then lose him after 4 years of college to UFA. It happens sometimes. The reason this trade could work with COL, is simple fact that if COL rejects, CHI could make a trade their #10 with LAK#5 (and give all those goodies you were going to get to LAK). Now knowing that CHI is at #5, Turcotte can easily tell COL, don't bother picking me at #4, I have no intention playing for COL and you will have to pretty much draft Duch at #4, which is a way too high for him, the consensus he will go 8-10. So, that is exactly the reason why sometimes you see the draft and wonder, why didn't Team X got Player Y at #Z and that is exactly why, players also have a say and ignoring it is not smart. (not saying that this is what happening, but Turcotte is a CHI boy, grew up cheering for Toews and Kane and attended Cup parades, etc, its his dream to be a Blackhawk).
Jun 6, 2019 at 11:39
#21
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 421
Likes: 84
Quoting: vmach
Yes, they are doing a due diligence, and you know why, because they want to know if those players want to play for them or not. Last thing you want is to draft a player in top 10 and then lose him after 4 years of college to UFA. It happens sometimes. The reason this trade could work with COL, is simple fact that if COL rejects, CHI could make a trade their #10 with LAK#5 (and give all those goodies you were going to get to LAK). Now knowing that CHI is at #5, Turcotte can easily tell COL, don't bother picking me at #4, I have no intention playing for COL and you will have to pretty much draft Duch at #4, which is a way too high for him, the consensus he will go 8-10. So, that is exactly the reason why sometimes you see the draft and wonder, why didn't Team X got Player Y at #Z and that is exactly why, players also have a say and ignoring it is not smart. (not saying that this is what happening, but Turcotte is a CHI boy, grew up cheering for Toews and Kane and attended Cup parades, etc, its his dream to be a Blackhawk).


Feel like due diligence might be for a bit more than that... But yeah, there's always a danger of losing a player. You keep missing the main point I'm making though, being able to pick at #4 gives Colorado the ability to pick and choose between the player they want. If they feel the player they want will be available at #10, then yeah, your trade makes a lot of sense. My opinion is that it doesn't, but that's just me. Everything up until the draft is purely hypothetical, so yeah, a scenario like the one you're saying could happen. Avs are still going to get one hell of a player though and they're going to have their pick of the litter.

Normally, I'd wish your team good luck, but same division? Nah. Keep beating this dead horse if you want to though.
 
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