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Fair deal for Mitch Marner

Created by: CD282
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 19, 2019
Published: Jun. 19, 2019
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
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From Dom Luszczyszyn at theathletic.com

"At the moment, my model considers Marner to be the second strongest player of this restricted free agent class behind Brayden Point, but more valuable overall because of the one year age difference which sees Marner worth 0.7 projected wins more over the next eight seasons. Given the variance and uncertainty involved in forecasting that far out, that margin is splitting hairs and there’s a good case to be made for either player for best of class.

Marner’s biggest asset is his playmaking which is nearly unrivalled. The only players projected to be stronger at generating assists are Nikita Kucherov, Connor McDavid and Blake Wheeler; Marner’s ability to drive a power play is a large part of his high standing here. Marner is also top 10 at driving play offensively – though that’s behind three other Leafs including both of his linemates. Defensively he’s weak, but that’s true of most of his teammates and he’s still an excellent player despite that.

So what’s that worth? Our Ian Tulloch already wrote a comprehensive piece about what Marner should make and settled in between $9.1-to-9.7 million over six-to-eight years. Jeff Veillette wrote a thorough breakdown in early May that’s worth reading as well and figured something in the low $9 million range was fair game. At an average projected value of 3.5 wins over the next eight seasons my model figures Marner is worth $9.6 million. That’s also roughly where Evolving Hockey’s contract model stands as well at $9.8 million over eight years (and lower with less term).

That shouldn’t be difficult to agree with, especially if Kucherov and Mark Stone, two wingers stronger than Marner, signed UFA deals (Kucherov was one year away) for $9.5 million. Patrick Kane, a player Marner is often favourably compared to, signed for 11.1 percent of the cap in his second contract. That’s equal to $9.2 million per year this summer.

Everything points to a contract in the ballpark of $9-to-10 million, except for posturing from the Marner camp suggesting he deserves similar money to Auston Matthews, the Leafs’ face of the franchise who plays centre and scores more goals – two qualities that often earn a bigger paycheque. That’s part of negotiating, and the Leafs likely can’t afford to lose this battle. We’ll see which side blinks first."

https://theathletic.com/1030697/2019/06/19/by-the-numbers-evaluating-the-stacked-crop-of-restricted-free-agents-and-what-theyre-worth/


See also:

https://theathletic.com/988241/2019/05/22/tulloch-a-breakdown-of-what-mitch-marner-should-earn-on-his-next-contract-based-on-comparables/

http://faceoffcircle.ca/2019/05/03/lets-talk-about-mitch-marner/

I threw together a roster just to show the other RFA's signed and what else needs to be done, I'm not suggesting that this is what the roster could / should look like come September. The defense is terrible and I have no idea what a Marleau deal should look like, I just wanted to see how much cap the Leafs actually needed to drop to slide under the limit. This mock is about Marner, not the rest of the roster. I gave Kap and Johnsson contracts based on Evolving Hockey estimates.
Free Agent Signings
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
8$9,600,000
2$2,270,000
4$3,750,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
1$1,500,000
2$1,000,000
Trades
TOR
  1. 2019 6th round pick (PIT)
  2. 2019 6th round pick (CBJ)
ARI
  1. Marleau, Patrick
  2. 2019 2nd round pick (TOR)
  3. 2019 4th round pick (STL)
Retained Salary Transactions
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2019
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the CBJ
Logo of the PIT
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the DAL
2020
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the EDM
Logo of the SJS
Logo of the WPG
2021
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
Logo of the TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
21$83,000,000$80,779,699$0$0$2,220,301
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,250,000$2,250,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,000,000$11,000,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$9,600,000$9,600,000
RW
UFA - 6
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$3,750,000$3,750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 4
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$11,634,000$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,270,000$2,270,000
RW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$6,962,366$6,962,366
RW
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$2,100,000$2,100,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,500,000$4,500,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$775,000$775,000
C, LW, RW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
C
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,500,000$4,500,000
RD
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$4,000,000$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$863,333$863,333
LD/RD
UFA - 1
$1,000,000$1,000,000
RD
UFA - 1
$1,500,000$1,500,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$750,000$750,000
LD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$675,000$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Toronto Maple Leafs
$5,300,000$5,300,000
RW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1

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Jun. 19, 2019 at 10:50 a.m.
#1
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Fair or not, he's not taking that. If it was 6 years at that price it'd be more fair. But I'd say the full 8 years he's probably closer to $10.5M-$11M
Jun. 19, 2019 at 10:50 a.m.
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Well with idiot GM's giving guys like Hayes 7+ and Skinner getting 9, I think getting Marner who is significantly better than both of them for under 10 is a pipe dream. He'll be getting 10-11 on an 8 year deal for sure now.
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Jun. 19, 2019 at 10:56 a.m.
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Toronto fans love talking up their players

Until it's time to pay them
Jun. 19, 2019 at 10:58 a.m.
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
Well with idiot GM's giving guys like Hayes 7+ and Skinner getting 9, I think getting Marner who is significantly better than both of them for under 10 is a pipe dream. He'll be getting 10-11 on an 8 year deal for sure now.


but Marner's own camp said he picks his comparables, and that it is Matthews. Going by that you can't justify more than 9.5 ish.
Their own words damn them. They are just using the media to negotiate and are trying to have it both ways. I maintain that anything (even on an 8 year deal) over 9.5 is an overpayment based on raw value, I also expect he will get more on less term, just how much of an overpay is the question right now.

6@9.5 ish is my bet.
Jun. 19, 2019 at 10:58 a.m.
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Toronto fans love talking up their players

Until it's time to pay them


Other fans love to **** on Leafs, until its time to pay them.

I like this game!
Jun. 19, 2019 at 10:59 a.m.
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I think what gets over-shadowed in all these articles and posts regarding Marner is his defensively ability as a small playmaking winger. As a Leafs fan I cringe at us spending 11M on Marner however that's what it will cost to get a guy with his skill set. Not only does he bring his powerplay skills, playmaking abilities; he's also a penalty killer, blocks shots and back checks hard.

He's got more responsibility than Patrick Kane does at 10.5M
Jun. 19, 2019 at 10:59 a.m.
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Quoting: Random2152
Other fans love to **** on Leafs, until its time to pay them.

I like this game!


Toronto fans losing their minds because their Ontario boys wont give them a discount.

You hate to see it
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:01 a.m.
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Quoting: Loops
I think what gets over-shadowed in all these articles and posts regarding Marner is his defensively ability as a small playmaking winger. As a Leafs fan I cringe at us spending 11M on Marner however that's what it well cost to get a guy with his skill set. Not only does he bring his powerplay skills, playmaking abilities; he's also a penalty killer, blocks shots and back checks hard.

He's got more responsibility than Patrick Kane does at 10.5M


Pat kane signed that deal years ago when it made up a bigger percentage of the cap. Apples to oranges
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:01 a.m.
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Toronto fans losing their minds because their Ontario boys wont give them a discount.

You hate to see it


We don't want a discount (I mean we do but..)
We want a fair deal. What Marner is asking for is entirely unprecedented and undeserved in every way.
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:04 a.m.
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Toronto fans love talking up their players

Until it's time to pay them


Judging from your account “Little jerry” you’re a sabres fan and are just bitter that your team did a much much much worse job at “rebuilding” their team than Toronto …. Toronto is leaps and bounds better then the Sabres and started their re-build after them !!!!! I cant wait until Eichel demands his trade out of town after missing the playoffs again and again
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:04 a.m.
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Quoting: Random2152
We don't want a discount (I mean we do but..)
We want a fair deal. What Marner is asking for is entirely unprecedented and undeserved in every way.


I was told everyone wanted to play in Toronto.

Your big Rfas either held out, only signed for 5 years and has a gun to your head.

Meanwhile tavares is signed until hes 34 on a deal that is all bonus money.

Not great
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:05 a.m.
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Quoting: Random2152
but Marner's own camp said he picks his comparables, and that it is Matthews. Going by that you can't justify more than 9.5 ish.
Their own words damn them. They are just using the media to negotiate and are trying to have it both ways. I maintain that anything (even on an 8 year deal) over 9.5 is an overpayment based on raw value, I also expect he will get more on less term, just how much of an overpay is the question right now.

6@9.5 ish is my bet.


And then pay him 13-15 million at the age of 28 when we know he'll be declining a few years later? Give him 8 years and what it takes to get that done. TO is going to have a stacked set of forwards for a long time.
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:05 a.m.
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Quoting: Jeff_Fingers_Agnet04
Judging from your account “Little jerry” you’re a sabres fan and are just bitter that your team did a much much much worse job at “rebuilding” their team than Toronto …. Toronto is leaps and bounds better then the Sabres and started their re-build after them !!!!! I cant wait until Eichel demands his trade out of town after missing the playoffs again and again


I am a Sabres fan.

Eichel signed for max term a full season early. Not the case for any of your guys.

Your rebuild has lead to the same number of series wins as buffalo
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:06 a.m.
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Toronto fans love talking up their players

Until it's time to pay them


I think you mean, All Fans*
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Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:06 a.m.
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Pat kane signed that deal years ago when it made up a bigger percentage of the cap. Apples to oranges


The point was, the kid isn't going to settle for less when he does arguably more than most wingers in the league in all 3 zones.

Patrick Laine is probably going to get Skinner money for being -24 on a playoff team.
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:08 a.m.
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
Well with idiot GM's giving guys like Hayes 7+ and Skinner getting 9, I think getting Marner who is significantly better than both of them for under 10 is a pipe dream. He'll be getting 10-11 on an 8 year deal for sure now.


UFA v RFA
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:09 a.m.
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Quoting: Loops
I think what gets over-shadowed in all these articles and posts regarding Marner is his defensively ability as a small playmaking winger. As a Leafs fan I cringe at us spending 11M on Marner however that's what it will cost to get a guy with his skill set. Not only does he bring his powerplay skills, playmaking abilities; he's also a penalty killer, blocks shots and back checks hard.

He's got more responsibility than Patrick Kane does at 10.5M


Patrick Kane, a player Marner is often favourably compared to, signed for 11.1 percent of the cap in his second contract. That’s equal to $9.2 million per year this summer.
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:10 a.m.
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Pat kane signed that deal years ago when it made up a bigger percentage of the cap. Apples to oranges


Patrick Kane, a player Marner is often favourably compared to, signed for 11.1 percent of the cap in his second contract. That’s equal to $9.2 million per year this summer.
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:11 a.m.
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
I am a Sabres fan.

Eichel signed for max term a full season early. Not the case for any of your guys.

Your rebuild has lead to the same number of series wins as buffalo


the only game that people seemed to show up to in Buffalo is when Toronto is in town
You ask me … would you rather have ANOTHER lottery pick or a first round playoff birth ..
or fire another coach only to fire your Gm then fire another coach and hire a soccer coach...
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:12 a.m.
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Quoting: Loops
The point was, the kid isn't going to settle for less when he does arguably more than most wingers in the league in all 3 zones.

Patrick Laine is probably going to get Skinner money for being -24 on a playoff team.


Nobody's asking Marner to sign for less than Kane's 11.1%.

And no way Laine gets Skinner money, more likely he gets a bridge deal.
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:13 a.m.
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
1)I was told everyone wanted to play in Toronto.

2)Your big Rfas either held out, only signed for 5 years and has a gun to your head.

3)Meanwhile tavares is signed until hes 34 on a deal that is all bonus money.

Not great


I don't think you actually made an argument here, as none of this has any relation to the convo, but ill dive in anyway.

1)Looking at Ferris' history, he has a history of creating drama like this with all of his clients (and doesn't usually get very good deals out of it). We do believe that Marner wants to play in his hometown - good team over any other team.

2)God forbid that a player tries to get as much money as possible. Doesn't mean you should give it to them but still, Nylander and Mats had every right to demand what is fair compensation (and Nylander's deal looks better by the day).

3)JT took a 14 million dollar discount at the least to play in Toronto (could be more depending on the isles offer with 8 years). He is a star centre in his prime, and this is the Leafs; we could pay for the entire league in bonus money if we wanted to.
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:14 a.m.
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Quoting: Random2152
We don't want a discount (I mean we do but..)
We want a fair deal. What Marner is asking for is entirely unprecedented and undeserved in every way.


Again, with the contracts getting handed out to secondary players (Hayes and Skinner), Marner isn't at all unprecedented. Giving him 11 makes way more sense than Hayes over 7.
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:15 a.m.
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
I was told everyone wanted to play in Toronto.

Your big Rfas either held out, only signed for 5 years and has a gun to your head.

Meanwhile tavares is signed until hes 34 on a deal that is all bonus money.

Not great


Jeff Skinner's career high is 63 points. He makes 9 million. Have you ever heard the phrase, don't throw stones in a glass house?
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Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:15 a.m.
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Quoting: Jeff_Fingers_Agnet04
the only game that people seemed to show up to in Buffalo is when Toronto is in town
You ask me … would you rather have ANOTHER lottery pick or a first round playoff birth ..
or fire another coach only to fire your Gm then fire another coach and hire a soccer coach...


Not defending Buffalo in any way, but Krueger was not a soccer coach. He was team president and a very successful one at that, and before that a good coach on a mediocre NHL team. He's a motivator and probably (IMO) the best possible person Buffalo could have hired.
Jun. 19, 2019 at 11:16 a.m.
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Quoting: LoganOllivier
Again, with the contracts getting handed out to secondary players (Hayes and Skinner), Marner isn't at all unprecedented. Giving him 11 makes way more sense than Hayes over 7.


UFA v RFA
 
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