Forums/Armchair-GM

Thoughts On Mike Babcock

Created by: MitchMarnerElite
Initial Creation Date: Nov 20, 2019
Published: Nov 20, 2019 at 7:01 pm
Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
I think Mike Babcock was the man to blame for the poor performance of his players. However, I don't think that he is a bad coach. The way he coached just doesn't suit this Leafs team. Mike wanted them to adapt to a heavy grinder style that waits for opponents to mess up. Today’s NHL is attack using north-south speed with d men pinching. Babcock is still looking at the late 90s early 2000s kind of hockey even though the team is not constructed to play that way.
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
  • Robin Lehner: $1,100,000 (22%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2020
TOR
CBJ
TOR
VGK
TOR
CAR
COL
EDM
SJS
STL
WPG
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
21$81,500,000$82,427,699$0$0-$927,699
Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
$3,400,000
LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 6
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$10,893,000
RW
UFA - 6
TOR
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
LW
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Matthews, Auston
$11,634,000
C
UFA - 5
TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, LW
UFA - 5
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
$925,000
LW, RW
RFA - 1
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Kapanen, Kasperi
$3,200,000
RW
RFA - 3
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
$675,000
C
RFA - 1
TOR
Shore, Nick
$750,000
C
UFA - 1
TOR
Moore, Trevor
$775,000
RW, LW
RFA - 2
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
UFA - 3
TOR
Ceci, Cody
$4,500,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$4,000,000
LD
UFA - 1
TOR
Barrie, Tyson
$2,750,000
RD
UFA - 1
TOR
Kaskisuo, Kasimir
$675,000
G
UFA - 1
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$863,333
LD
RFA - 1
TOR
Holl, Justin
$675,000
RD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
TOR
Spezza, Jason
$700,000
C, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Horton, Nathan
$5,300,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Clarkson, David
$5,250,000
RW
NMC NTC
UFA - 1

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Nov 20, 2019 at 7:05
#1
i hope ur hungry now
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,220
Likes: 874
The babclock has expired
Nov 20, 2019 at 7:05
#2
Math and Sports
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 649
Likes: 162
ACGM: Babcock is not a bad coach.

Also ACGM: Proceeds to give explanation of how Babcock is an outdated coach still living in the 90's and is thereby a bad coach.
Nov 20, 2019 at 7:09
#3
Thread Starter
Marner Stan Account
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3,825
Likes: 1,247
Quoting: SpaghettiPasta
The babclock has expired


Good one.
Nov 20, 2019 at 7:09
#4
Thread Starter
Marner Stan Account
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3,825
Likes: 1,247
Quoting: TheCelt
ACGM: Babcock is not a bad coach.

Also ACGM: Proceeds to give explanation of how Babcock is an outdated coach still living in the 90's and is thereby a bad coach.


Well, just because his coaching style is outdated doesn't mean he's bad overall. I mean, he still won a lot of silverware before this era.
Nov 20, 2019 at 7:29
#5
Habs4life
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 344
Likes: 37
Funny he was coaching well when Lou was the G.M. They turned the team around pretty quickly.

Now he needs to go. hmmm.
Nov 20, 2019 at 7:34
#6
Pens Rule!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 243
Likes: 21
Quoting: MikeyThePensFan
Well, just because his coaching style is outdated doesn't mean he's bad overall. I mean, he still won a lot of silverware before this era.


The Islanders have no problem with that style of play. Run and gun works best when you have highly skilled players like the Leafs and Pens. They still have to play sound defense to win.
Nov 20, 2019 at 7:44
#7
Thread Starter
Marner Stan Account
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3,825
Likes: 1,247
Quoting: Captain_Koivu_
Funny he was coaching well when Lou was the G.M. They turned the team around pretty quickly.

Now he needs to go. hmmm.


Babcock and Lou had a great working relationship. Lou supported the way Babs wanted to coach and he brought in the players for it.
Nov 20, 2019 at 7:46
#8
Thread Starter
Marner Stan Account
Joined: Sep 2019
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Quoting: coffey77
The Islanders have no problem with that style of play. Run and gun works best when you have highly skilled players like the Leafs and Pens. They still have to play sound defense to win.


One issue is no defence, another is no forecheck or urgency away from the puck. No speed either.
BOLTLOVER1 liked this.
Nov 20, 2019 at 8:00
#9
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 790
Likes: 186
People repeat the same bits all over the place on social media: Babcock played a defensive style, Babcock wants a system where players wait for opponents to mess up, Babcock believed in an outdated style of play.

Not the case. It's the opposite. Babcock always preached an offensive style. He's the one who introduced the trademark North-South stretch pass system we used all these years, with Gardiner at QB. His "defensive system" had nothing conventional. He wanted players to put intense pressure along the boards to regain possession (read: puck chasing), by outnumbering the puck carrier, with the hope of generating fast counter-attacks. Instead of a more conservative, positional play.

We are the second worst defensive team in the league! If Babcock taught a defensive style, we would lose games 2-1. Not the case. The problem is, the defensive system was lacking in the first place, and he couldn't find a solution to it this year.

My guess: this run and gun system, with intense pressure on puck carriers, worked in the past because the lineup was more balanced. And we had players who had been trained with that system for years. They knew Gardiner would reach them with a pass if they cheated. Change the lineup, and new players are not used to that. They don't know where to go, make errors, which leads to silly looking goals.
Nov 20, 2019 at 8:19
#10
BOLT LOVER
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,838
Likes: 323
Not going to change.. Toronto worst 11 to 20 players in NHL outside of Ottawa .. I mean awful on D and the talented prima Donna's on top lines are girlie girlies.. team needs an enima.. coach always first to go .. question is Nylander or Matthew's next or the GM?
Nov 20, 2019 at 8:30
#11
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 1,540
Quoting: leaflet
People repeat the same bits all over the place on social media: Babcock played a defensive style, Babcock wants a system where players wait for opponents to mess up, Babcock believed in an outdated style of play.

Not the case. It's the opposite. Babcock always preached an offensive style. He's the one who introduced the trademark North-South stretch pass system we used all these years, with Gardiner at QB. His "defensive system" had nothing conventional. He wanted players to put intense pressure along the boards to regain possession (read: puck chasing), by outnumbering the puck carrier, with the hope of generating fast counter-attacks. Instead of a more conservative, positional play.

We are the second worst defensive team in the league! If Babcock taught a defensive style, we would lose games 2-1. Not the case. The problem is, the defensive system was lacking in the first place, and he couldn't find a solution to it this year.

My guess: this run and gun system, with intense pressure on puck carriers, worked in the past because the lineup was more balanced. And we had players who had been trained with that system for years. They knew Gardiner would reach them with a pass if they cheated. Change the lineup, and new players are not used to that. They don't know where to go, make errors, which leads to silly looking goals.


That's a pretty solid assessment, I think. I was of the thinking that he handcuffed the strength of team in favour of defense play. But your take makes alot of sense . They look lost out there so much this year. It'll be interesting to see how they look witt with Keefe in place
leaflet liked this.
Nov 20, 2019 at 10:36
#12
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 790
Likes: 186
Quoting: blowing_the_zone
That's a pretty solid assessment, I think. I was of the thinking that he handcuffed the strength of team in favour of defense play. But your take makes alot of sense . They look lost out there so much this year. It'll be interesting to see how they look witt with Keefe in place


Thanks! The change will help, I'm sure. Keefe is a mystery to me, but players needed someone new behind the bench.

My quibble with Babcock was that, ironically maybe, he was not conventional enough. Most coaches would cut their bench if trailing in the third period. They would play Matthews 20 minutes or more. They would have tried Barrie on the first PP if things didn't work for 10 games. I think I would have been happy with any "normal" NHL coach at this point.
blowing_the_zone liked this.
Nov 21, 2019 at 12:10
#13
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 10,180
Likes: 2,250
teams have to pick an identity and stick with it.
If you are going to be a speed team and you want to add physicality to it, then you need to find those bigger faster players who can do that.
TOR really didn't do that. But that isn't the biggest issue here. The biggest issue is the defense sucks. They don't have a true #1 pair on the team, and that's where it starts.
Nov 21, 2019 at 7:48
#14
Pens Rule!
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 243
Likes: 21
Quoting: MikeyThePensFan
One issue is no defence, another is no forecheck or urgency away from the puck. No speed either.


So your saying they suck.smirk
Nov 21, 2019 at 8:47
#15
Thread Starter
Marner Stan Account
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3,825
Likes: 1,247
Quoting: leaflet
People repeat the same bits all over the place on social media: Babcock played a defensive style, Babcock wants a system where players wait for opponents to mess up, Babcock believed in an outdated style of play.

Not the case. It's the opposite. Babcock always preached an offensive style. He's the one who introduced the trademark North-South stretch pass system we used all these years, with Gardiner at QB. His "defensive system" had nothing conventional. He wanted players to put intense pressure along the boards to regain possession (read: puck chasing), by outnumbering the puck carrier, with the hope of generating fast counter-attacks. Instead of a more conservative, positional play.

We are the second worst defensive team in the league! If Babcock taught a defensive style, we would lose games 2-1. Not the case. The problem is, the defensive system was lacking in the first place, and he couldn't find a solution to it this year.

My guess: this run and gun system, with intense pressure on puck carriers, worked in the past because the lineup was more balanced. And we had players who had been trained with that system for years. They knew Gardiner would reach them with a pass if they cheated. Change the lineup, and new players are not used to that. They don't know where to go, make errors, which leads to silly looking goals.


Well, I think Babcock wanted to play with north-south speed system when he first started to coach following the draft lottery in 2016/17, but after their 1st round loss to the Bruins in 2017/18, he decided to play a more physical system which didn't suit the players. He thought the issue was his players weren't tough enough, even though the real issue was that the defence wasn't good enough and therefore he never fixed it.
Nov 21, 2019 at 8:51
#16
Thread Starter
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Quoting: pharrow
teams have to pick an identity and stick with it.
If you are going to be a speed team and you want to add physicality to it, then you need to find those bigger faster players who can do that.
TOR really didn't do that. But that isn't the biggest issue here. The biggest issue is the defense sucks. They don't have a true #1 pair on the team, and that's where it starts.


Yeah what I felt was that Babcock changed the team's identity even though the biggest issue was the defence that he never bothered fixing.
Nov 21, 2019 at 8:51
#17
Thread Starter
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Quoting: coffey77
So your saying they suck.smirk


Given the way this Leafs team has played, they are a lottery team.
Nov 21, 2019 at 10:34
#18
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 10,180
Likes: 2,250
Quoting: MikeyThePensFan
Yeah what I felt was that Babcock changed the team's identity even though the biggest issue was the defence that he never bothered fixing.


It's not babcock's job to fix the defense. That's on the GM. He's the guy who does the contracts. At the end of the day if GMJR brings in the wrong guys the coach gets scapegoated but it's the GM's fault.
Same is true with Babs. I'm sure there is more to that whole situation than what is public but there is also no doubt that they ran rug-shot all over Dubas.
But they get to rebuild that defense in the off season, 5 of them are FA. They can go from there.
Nov 22, 2019 at 9:22
#19
Thread Starter
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Quoting: pharrow
It's not babcock's job to fix the defense. That's on the GM. He's the guy who does the contracts. At the end of the day if GMJR brings in the wrong guys the coach gets scapegoated but it's the GM's fault.
Same is true with Babs. I'm sure there is more to that whole situation than what is public but there is also no doubt that they ran rug-shot all over Dubas.
But they get to rebuild that defense in the off season, 5 of them are FA. They can go from there.


You're right actually, I agree. If the Leafs were losing games by a score of 1-2 every night, then blame the coach for not able to generate any offence. However, they're giving up 5-6 goals a game, you have to think there's pressure on the GM for bringing in guys like Ceci and Barrie who can't play defence. Babcock has actually done a good job developing Rielly, Dermott and Holl to improve their defensive game.
 
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