Unless ANA goes out and signs multiple top 4 calibre RD men next summer (highly unlikely) Manson is still basically unmovable from their standpoint I'm afraid...

DO NOT give Muzzin more than 3 years, two ideally even if the cost hits 6aav.
Holl has been an NHL Dman for all of 40 games. I really like his game but he should get a short deal under a million (2@0.925 ish).
Also thinking Kap is the guy that gets moved over Mango

Muzzin is not signable at your amounts (which is fair I wouldn't sign him for what he's likely to want).

Holl deserves a tad more. I suspect 2-3 years at 1.5 ish mil

Keep dreaming on the trade

I am not sure anyone is going to give Muzzin more. Maybe someone offers him more term but we will see. In terms of it working under the cap, it absolutely does. Feel free to try.
If Holl gets into the 1 mil range, it will be for the max bury able amount (not that I think he will be buried). Doobie has been good on depth contracts and with Holl's limited time I really think he will be under a mil. Maybe not but with his age and 40 games experience I cannot fathom him commanding more.

Muzzin is about the 45th-60th best defenseman over the last few years over many metrics.

He is not that old. I don't see him signing for less than 25 mil

30 is the new 32 and physical dmen have been known to fall off a cliff. As I said I wouldn't pay more than 3 years, ideally 2 but if some stupid GM is dumb enough they might.

On a slightly different note: the NHL really needs to limit contracts to 4&5 years instead of 7&8. That would fix so much with the league contract wise.

Or GM's just need to not be stupid. Let others be stupid and they'll create their own problems.

Do you honestly believe GM's will ever stop being stupid if not forced?
Honestly now, come on. One of the better GM's in the league signed Karlsson to 8@11.5, another just signed Josi to 8@9.059, another signed Skinner to 8@9, another signed ...

I don't think he's been so good in San Jose. I think they either have the best trainers/medical staff or have just been damn lucky that so many of their players have stayed elite into their mid 30s. I bet on luck.

There was no choice on Josi. That's a good argument to your point about limiting years. Josi is too good. They need to sign him and hope he lasts.

The Skinner contract is hilarious as he was a flawed player apparently before being traded has one great season (really an incredible half season than an okay half season) and hes worth 8 years...

Anywho my point is you should allow GM's to be dumb because that creates opportunities for smart GM's to take advantage.

Not really. How do these stupid deals help Doobie, or Sakic, or [insert your fav gm here]? It just means they will have a harder time keeping guys like Muzzin to contracts that they might actually be worth.

Its a game of Russian roulette with 5 blanks. You might not die if you get a blank, but it'll ****ing hurt.

If Dubas hadn't screwed himself out with his own bad contracts it is an advantage when other teams are in cap hell

Which contract is bad. I am serious. The only contract I am even a little miffed about is the Marner one, and that is just because it is a bit of an overpay. He is going to be paid that during his prime years (where he will statistically outperform it like most young players). Bad contracts pay out to unproductive players.

Bad contracts aren't just to bad players. Bad contracts are simply paying someone more than they're worth.

For extreme examples: paying Marincin 5 million would be bad but so too would paying Matthews 20 million.

The Marner contract is really bad. Within a couple of weeks of him signing look at what a better player (Rantanen) got, a much more valuable player (Point) got and a slightly less valuable player (Tkachuk) got. That deal is terrible.

The Matthews cap hit is fine at 8 years putting him between Eichel and McDavid. It's an ocerpay at 5 years.

Ceci should have been made to accept his QO at 4.2 million. There was no reason to give him that extra 300k. That difference could have meant an extra healthy scratch.

I actually don't have a problem with Nylander.

Otherwise they're fine to good

Point and Tkachuk got bridge deals. Apples to oranges. Rantanen is not better than Marner. They are close and Mitch should have come in around the Rant contract but Rant isn't better. The deal overpays a young star in his prime by a measly 1.5 million dollars (when most stars are underpaid by multiple millions). Big woop. He will outproduce the contract so if you have to overpay, overpay a player like that.

Look at cap %. Eichel is the outlier, not Matthews. Malkin basically signed the same contract as Mats.

The Ceci issue is because he could have gotten 2 years at 4.3 if he had gone to arb. 200k to keep him happy and off our books for a year is absolutely worth it.

Good, cause people who have an issue with Bill are stupid.

Babcock buried Holl and he’s now showing he’s a legit top 4 defenseman in his prime years. He’s big, physical, a RD and can skate. As Leaf fans we tend to over value our stars and undervalue steady, reliable less flashy players. Holl is an example of this. His next contract will be his best chance for a payday because of his age and he will get and deserve a hefty raise. Call me crazy, but I like Holl better at $2.5M than Reilly at $7-8M which is what he’ll command on his next contract.

Holl is exiting his prime. He is 28 lol. I really like him and I think he will be a fine 2nd pair guy as a stop gap for better younger talent, but ultimately he will have 60-90 games of experience as an NHL player in contract negotiations. That doesn't give him a ton on leverage