The Gaborik contract is insured, so Melnyck doesn't pay much but the cap hit still counts. That's perfect for a cap floor type team like Ottawa and you're not going to convince Melnyck to spend MORE money.

I'm not sure exactly how LTIR works over the summer but I think that those 3 contracts would count against the cap until the first game of the season. If so, we would actually have LESS maneuvaribility to re-sign Hughes (10 million ish) and Pettersson (11 million ish).

Gaudette does not get that much


He gets waaaay more

Dumbs is not a defensive defenceman. If you’re trading Boeser, it has to be one of Ekblad, Parayko, Pesce, etc coming back

Player who is pretty much guaranteed to be a permanent LTIR is actually a good thing to have......

Its when you have a player that sucks but doesn't get injured that is when the player is a huge burden.

Gaborik doesn't hurt Ottawa in the slightest. Kesler doesn't hurt Anaheim in the slightest. Some teams have actually paid to get players on permanent LTIR in order to surpass the salary cap. See Toronto with Horton/Clarkson.

So there is very little incentive for those teams to trade those guys away. Teams would rather have permanent LTIR's than guys like Ericksson or Baertschi precisely for the reason Vancouver doesn;t want them. They take up actual cap space and they have to actually be paid by the team and not mostly by insurance (when on LTIR).

WTF IS THAT OTTAWA TRADE?

Other than that, the Anaheim trade is definitely fair for the Ducks, as long as they have the cap space. And I know the Canucks need the cap space, but they definitely don't need to make both ANA & OTT moves, since Baerschi only makes just over $2 million in the minors, and you have $9.5 million in cap space, with the lowest possible salary cap for next year.

I didn't know Gabby's contract was that highly insured, but I guess that would make sense why his contract is in IR and not LTIR if it counts against their cap.

And I was under the impression that LTIR did not impact the roster/cap on the first day otherwise the Leafs would get boned every year with Horton and Clarkson sitting in LTIR for the past and future bunch of seasons.


He has no Arb rights, not offer sheet eligible and he hasn't really proved through consistency that he is worth more. I have him on a 2yr "Show-me" contract.


No, he is not a true defensive defenseman like an Ekblad/Parayko or Pesce, but none of those guys play in Minny, which is where Boeser is from and where his father is currently fighting cancer.

That said, Boeser on his own isn't enough to pull Ekblad.

Parayko and Pesce might be better fitted for Hughes though.
Payarko might shake loose if the Blues plan to resign Pietrangelo, sooo maybe? Although, I'm not sure how Boeser as a 2nd line RW behind Tarasenko appeals to the Blues.
Pesce is interesting, but I think loosing both hamilton AND Pesce this season would probably make the cane leary on tradings a defenseman for a winger, especially when they have a glut of young wingers in Svechnikov, Teräväinen, Necas and Foegele(?) already.

I'd be happy with any of Ekblad/Parayko/Pesce playing with Hughes but I don't see any of them getting moved, and I don't see Boeser getting moved unless it's to the Wild for family reasons.


SMH!
I am well aware of how LTIR works as cap relief. HOWEVER, for teams that are struggling financially or starting a rebuild (where revenues are going diminish), they still have to pay those players sitting on LTIR, and Insurance (If any) only covers a portion of the contract. Yes, it does not hurt the team in terms of dollars against the cap to have players on LTIR, but it is still operational money out of the owner's pocket. Rich owners/franchises, like the Leafs, are more than happy to eat LTIR money if they can unload some cap space in return. How do you think the Leafs acquired Horton's and Clarkson's LTIR contracts in the first place? The Leafs regretted signing Clarkson, so they traded him to the jackets for then LTIR Horton, because the jackets didn't want to pay Horton to sit at home or in the press box. That was a straight-up trade: LTIR player for an under-performing overpaid player. Clarkson was still a decent roster player, albeit overpaid. CBJ saw the benefit of paying a player to PLAY vs sitting at home as more valuable to their franchise. Clarkson then gets hurt and placed on LTIR, so Columbus deals him the Vegas as part of an expansion draft package for the exact same reason. Later, Vegas deals Clarkson back to the Leafs for the exact same reason. Saying teams don't have the incentive to move LTIR players is ****. It happens on a regular basis for deals exactly like I'm proposing. the finances of owning and running a team go beyond the on-ice product. It's not like players on LTIR are walking away from their contracts and not all contracts are insured for even half their value, so teams still may have to pay out huge sums of money.

Eriksson has a 6 mil cap hit for 2 more years after this one. after his bonus is paid out in July, he is only owed 5mil total salary for those final 2 years. Paying a guy effectively 2.5mil/yr but getting a 6mil cap hit is a better deal than what a lot of insured contracts payout at. Baerstchi is still a decent offensive player and for a rebuilding team, they could do a lot worse for similar money. He needs to get moved because he just doesn't fit in Vancouver's system for any of the roster spots that would be available for him (bottom 6), and isn't better than any of the players in roster spots he would fit into (top 6).


ANA stated before the deadline they will take on bad cap money in deals and they have the cap space.

The moves facilitate freeing up enough cap space to be able to sign Hughes and Pettersson before the 21/22 season. Current projections have both players in the 9-11mil x 8yr range, so these moves give the canucks the flexibility to sign them, and still have room to make other deals to augment and fill out their lineup.

As for the Ottawa trade, it is 2 parts:
1. Gabby for Baerstchi, as paying a guy to play vs paying a guy to stay at home is beneficial for a small-market, financially struggling franchise like the Sens. Insured or not, they both have 1 year remaining (20/21) and Ottawa was rumoured to be in on Baerstchi at the deadline according to a number of insiders. Ottawa will need help to fill out their roster for next season and be above the cap floor, so they are either taking worse players with even worse contracts or making deals like this.
2. Ottawa needs an elite goaltending prospect who can come in and play now. Nilssen isn't a #1, Anderson well past his prime and isn't likely to be resigned this summer, and none of the high-end UFA/RFA goalies were going to sign in the dumpster fire that is Ottawa for the next couple seasons. Demko can play, he's still a little green but with Nilssen as his 1b/1/3 backup, and only 23y/o, he can be a cornerstone the Sens can build around. Such a goalie returning a 2nd and a late 6th is a fair deal.

The Ottawa trade seems even worse than before. I definitely have a very different view (albeit an outsider's view) on Demko than you do. Anaheim I don't know their cap situation very well, I'm just saying that they're taking on $6 million, plus whatever Stetcher signs for.

Uuughh....


"They still have to pay those players sitting on LTIR, and Insurance (If any) only covers a portion of the contract." - Players are paid as they normally would. Most* contracts are insured by the team so that if a player is injured the team doesn't have to pay the full salary whilst injured.I only say most rather than all because in cases like Nathan Horton, the player can feasibly get injured before the club has insured his contract. Otherwise I think it's standard practice.

"How do you think the Leafs acquired Horton's and Clarkson's LTIR contracts in the first place? The Leafs regretted signing Clarkson, so they traded him to the jackets for then LTIR Horton, because the jackets didn't want to pay Horton to sit at home or in the press box. That was a straight-up trade: LTIR player for an under-performing overpaid player. Clarkson was still a decent roster player, albeit overpaid. CBJ saw the benefit of paying a player to PLAY vs sitting at home as more valuable to their franchise. Clarkson then gets hurt and placed on LTIR, so Columbus deals him the Vegas as part of an expansion draft package for the exact same reason. Later, Vegas deals Clarkson back to the Leafs for the exact same reason. " - Horton's contract WAS NOT INSURED. That's why they preferred Clarkson. Because they had to actually pay the full salary of Horton and he would never play again. NOT because they prefered a healthy Clarkson over a injured Horton. Had that contract been insured, they would have never traded for Clarkson as they would have been actually paying more money FOR Clarkson.

"It's not like players on LTIR are walking away from their contracts and not all contracts are insured for even half their value, so teams still may have to pay out huge sums of money." - You literally don't know how much they insure for because they don't disclose how much they are insured. One thing I do know, is that it is "standard practice" now and most contracts are insured up to 80%. Insuring for 5% isn't a thing.

On top of all this, Ericksson has an NMC making him hard to move as going to Anaheim won't mean he'll get to play more minutes, in fact it'll be less because they are rebuilding and deep on the wings already. He's got his life in Vancouver already, he gains nothing from going to Anaheim. Its not like he's saving on taxes or anything.

Ottawa literally got Gaborik BECAUSE they didn't have to pay much of his salary but could use his cap to reach the cap floor. Baertschi is even making the top 6 in Ottawa who are rebuilding. They want their young core to get those minutes, not a player whose being paid 3.6M to play in the AHL. Although Demko is definitely a decent consolation prize, they are giving up one of the highest 2nd rounders in the draft also.... not exactly for nothing.

Either way, whether you agree with my opinion or not, you can't claim to KNOW they are saving money with these trades if we don't know the details of the insurance policy. If Kesler and Gaborik are insured, which based on their injury history makes sense, it could very well be for up to 80% and if that's the case, both trades they are actually paying more money than just keeping either player.

I'm not claiming insuring is or isn't standard practice. However, Insurance works on risk, so players who have been injured more are more costly to insure, their coverages are limited, or they are not insurable at all. this is standard practice for the insurance industry.



Maybe they wouldn't have traded him, but can you show me the numbers to prove they would have preferred to pay an injured Horton with insurance over a healthy Clarkson? or are you just speculating because it fits your opinion?


You don't know how much they insure them for either by your own admission. I do know how insurance works and high risk, high probability policies always cost a lot and have limited coverage. "up to 80%" does not mean every contract is insured to 80% total value, and I never claimed 5% either. you are throwing out specifics like you know something, not me.


Eriksson actually has an NTC right now and will be a 15-team Modified-NTC this summer. He won't have that much control over where he goes. And he does not have a life in Vancouver, he spends as little time in the city as possible. The fan base does not like him and the media shreds him on a regular basis. His agent has even gone on local spots radio to say that they were working on a deal to send him anywhere last summer, but none of the teams were interested in paying his bonuses, so they were waiting for this summer to make the deal after his last bonus is paid out. But you are probably right, he gains nothing from a trade to Anaheim or anywhere else.


What young core does Ottawa have beyond Tkachuk and Chabot? Of the 3 UFA and 6 RFA forwards they have right now on expiring contracts, which ones are you building around as a real "core?"

And you must be right, a 36th overall goalie, with Demko's resume, ready to step in as a 1a/b on any rebuilding team that doesn't already have their current and long-term future in the position locked up, isn't worth an early 2nd and late 6th. Schneider returned the 9th overall (and potentially the 7th and additional pieces if they accepted Edmontns inter-division offer at the draft), and many have compared Demko to where Schneider was the year before he was dealt at the draft.


And conversely, you cannot claim to know either.

You are just as in the dark as the rest of us.
You have no idea what their insurable status is, or if either of them has limited coverages because of their injury history. For all you know it could only be 40-60% coverage or none at all. "Pre-existing conditions" make insuring someone very costly with very limited coverage payouts and lots of red-tape. I know this because I have gone through it personally and professionally. If it weren't for pre-existing conditions my premiums would be half of, and the benefits would be double, what they are. And make no mistake, Insurance companies will make you go through all manner of physical testing before they even offer to give you a quote, let alone an actual policy.... and I'm not making $5mil/yr in a highly physical sport with extremely high probabilities of injury.

Teams generally insure the top paid players on their team. Columbus took a huge risk not insuring Horton and it was widely known. That was their prerogative of course but seeing as how that screwed them, I imagine all other teams wisen'd up. -https://www.jacketscannon.com/2015/3/8/8161469/the-37-million-gamble



Simply pointing out that teams insuring player contracts has become "standard practice". The 5% comment was just in regards to them lets say not insuring up to 80% would not be realistic. Calm down, never said you said that either.....



Well the fact that they have one of the best prospects pools in the NHL as of this year should mean something - https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-farm-system-rankings/
Then there is the fact that very well could have two picks in the top 5 this year who are mostly forwards. Then there is the fact that while Demko is a decent prospect like I said, its not like they don't have anyone already there and with plenty of goalie prospects already on the way, I don't think they NEED to make this move. Like I said, its not like they are getting Demko for free here. They are essentially paying a 2nd rounder for Demko himself. Like I said, whats the incentive? Its not like Baertschi is even a lock to make this team. Their top 9 is pretty well secured already and Baertschi does nothing for them on the 4th line if he were to be placed there. Teams had the chance to get Baertschi for free not too long ago and no one bit. The only it works is if you take back salary and cap OFF their roster. Gaborik doesn't apply.




Agreed 100%. We both don't know for sure. Then the only reasonable conclusion we can have is that these trades would only work under presumption that they ARE NOT insured. If both Gaborik and Kesler's contracts are not insured, than by all means. I just assume they were as they were both within the top 6 contracts on either team at the time and that based on my research, insuring contracts NOW is "standard practice".