Have 3 point a game players which TO looks like they probably have is nothing to snuff at. Especially when Marner and Matthews could also be 100 point players as well. Nylander and Sandin compared to Yamamoto and Bouchard is weighted extremely heavily TO's way.

"I hate it when people have different views than me"

I don't agree with all of what you said but there are good points there for sure. I will say Makar is absolutely the real deal, he's going to be a stud. Yamamoto is a good NHLer but he's more of a passenger than anything else. The difference between Nylander and Yamamoto is much wider than Marner and Draisaitl. And if we are talking Sandin vs Bouchard, Sandin just won best defenceman at the WJ, and has shown he's capable of playing in the NHL, that is more than Bouchard can say and he's older.

You can't deny Edmonton wins top 2 players but the Gulf between the rest of their list compared to most others is huge.

Hischier is close. Hischier has a great playmaking and scoring ability, and still is good defensively. He is also playing on a worse team. I'd call it even.

Dubois is again close, but just looking at the offersheets ACGM's give him when compared to Cirelli, his production, and his great year last year I'd give it to Dubois. Cirelli is also playing on a much better team.

LA is a no for now. Kopitar is one of the best power Centers in the NHL, and was on track for almost 70 pts this year. Not even close. In 2-3 yrs? Maybe.

NSH is again close. Johansen was very good in his prime, and although he hasn't lived up to his contract, he still is good for 60 pts. I'd give it to Cirelli.

CGY is a definitive no. Although Toews is starting to fall off he is still SO much better then Cirelli. He was a ppg last year and was on track for 70 pts this year. He has also won a Selke before and usually gets votes, while Cirelli has not.

DET is again not even close. Larkin is an unbelievable play maker. After a 70 pt season last year, he did worse this year as he was only on track for 60 pts, but at the same Detroit was god awful.

I'm going to pretend you didn't compare Barzal to Cirelli.

Cool story

they could be 100 point players but Edm's players already r for the past 2 seasons so nothing to debate bout there.... Nylander and Sandin compared to Yamamoto and Bouchard.. ill take TOR mostly cause of Nylander but Yamamoto could be considered ppg as well so doesnt weight that heavy... so EDM wins pretty convincingly

But the best is COL no doubt at all MacKinnon = Matthews, (factored in age) Rantanen > Marner, Makar >> Nylander, Byram >> Sandin
MacKinnon < Mcdavid, Rantanen < Draisaitl, Makar >> Yamamoto, Byram >> Bouchard

I would say marner > rantanen, but yeah I agree the avs are way better.

maybe, guess its just personal preference

really like the way Rantanen plays

Hischier it's close, ill give you that

I'd go Cirelli > Dubois right now. They are both solid offensively, but Cirelli is much better defensively.

Kopitar is still a good top 6 center, but his 5 v 5 offense+ defense has fell off a bit. Cirelli is the better player right now.

Johansen was below replacement level this season. It's not close.

Monahan it's debatable. He regressed hard this season.

Just because toews won a selke doesn't mean hes good defensively. In fact hes brutal away from the puck.

Detroit its closer than you think.

^ same for barzal.

Oh was it CGY not CHI No idea why I said Toews.
I also did the NHL.com rankings which in general are pretty accurate, as it is literally the official rankings.

Cirelli ranking among F: 106
Even if it is CGY Monahan is considerably better. Cirelli was on pace for 58 pts, which is definitely something. He was also playing on a VERY good team.
Monahan was on track for less then 60 pts also, which isn't but remember last year he was over a ppg. If we say on average he is good for 70 pts, and Cirelli 55, we have to ask ourselves is slightly better defensive game (slightly, it's not that big of a difference) worth 15 pts? Probably not.
Monahan's ranking among forwards: 93
Toews's ranking among forwards: 91

Dubois is still better imo. His ability to create goals and his solid enough defensive game gives him the slight edge.
Dubois's ranking among forwards: 92 (damn those 3 are close together)

You're sleeping on Kopitar. He was scoring at a rate so much higher then Cirelli was on such bad team without linemates it's not even close. L+
Kopitar's ranking among forwards: 43

Johansen's ranking among forwards: nr

Larkin's ranking: 89

Barzal's ranking: 67

Hischier's ranking: n/r

So yes he is better then Hischier and Johansen, and isn't much worse then the others. That's pretty good.

I don’t trust NHL.com rankings lol.

Cirelli contributes more to winning hockey games than a lot of the centers you listed. Points aren’t everything.

For example Kyle Connor isn’t better than mark stone even though Connor put up more goals and points this season. Stone is a better play driver (offensively + defensively), is better on the powerplay and on the PK

I'm not going to argue that there isn't a gap between the bottom two on EDM.
But I will say you underestimate The gap in the top 2. Drai is a 50 goal 100+ point player consistently. Marner ain't close.
That kind of top talent goes a long long way. Especially for what you are getting in the contract amount. Drai makes 8.5. Marner about 10.9.
But I'm not even considering the contract amounts when I say. There is a grand canyon in difference between Drai and what COL or TOR brings on the table to who ever is number 2.
Drai gives a true 1A 1B to the oilers. Two dominate lines, two difficult match ups, 2/3 of the game with a real threat of someone who can take over the game on the ice. You just aren't getting that in these other teams.
Marner is at best an assist guy 20 goal scorer. Rantanen a winger who will always need a center.

Nylander I don't think is any better than Makar. He had his best season this year, but can he sustain it is my question on him. There is a mountain of evidence, I think, that he's a 20 goal 60 pt guy at heart.
Do I think Yamamato can hit 20 goals a year.....yeah I do. He might not be able to do some of the other stuff that Nylander does due to his size. But he can put up points. So I don't know if the difference there between the two really makes up for what you lose in the Drai match up.
As for the 4th guy, Neither one has much to go off of, so it's not worth arguing. TOR defense is trash this year. If he can't stand out on it, it's not worth trying to talk about it. The may have missed the playoffs this year if they weren't saved by the season ending because the defense was that bad.

Oh come on. Nylander is just hitting his prime and after Babs got fired he was pretty much a point a game player. Sustaining that won't be a problem.

Marner is a 95 pt player who will likely be 100+ in a year or two.

Also Nylander was 20g 60pt as a 20 yr old. That is a ridicolous statement.

Yamamoto>Nylander? WTAF

AND the Leafs got better as the year went on lol. The defense got much much better as well. Please do the research before you say random **** like this.

As of right now I would put Girard over Byram. He's a top pair D man already and Byram is unproven. I don't think it's fair to evaluate based on the hype of prospects since they don't always pan out (not saying Byram won't pan out, I just mean in general)

Ya. Either oilers,avs or leafs I would say though.

A you are just making crap up as you go.
No one said Yamamota was greater than Nylander. What was stated is Yamamoto could be a 20 goal guy too. So please learn to read.

B. Nylander has had 1 season out of 4 being more than a 20 goal guy. 1. You cold view last season and say the same thing. But no one said he was a bust after last year. Just like no one should be on here buying high. There are 4 years of evidence here. And as of right now you are buying high.

C. Marner has never hit 95 points, his high is 94. Since you want to say he's a 95 point guy. And again, he's an assist guy. 94 points and 26 goals says a lot. Compared to 105 points and 50 goals and 110 points and 43 goals in 11 less games.
If you don't understand the mountain of difference between those two stat lines I can't help you.
What I do know is he was averaging 22 goals this year and 93 points. And that is simply who he is. 20 goals....a bunch of assists.
Lets be clear. Being 20+ less goals a season to another player, is a huge difference. Like adding Nylander himself difference.

Because truth be told. Drai and Yamamoto probably net more goals than Marner and Nylander (47) Hell Drai almost does it himself at 43 this year so far. In 27 games Yamamoto racked in 11. so Yeah.



Is that why their last 4 games they went 1-3?
With loses to SJS, ANA, LAK. power houses.
They were falling apart with with 12 games left. But go on.

Babs was never the problem from a production stand point. One could argue he was better. As this team was crumbling in the stretch. Don't tell me losing to SJS, ANA and LAK in 3 of your last 4 games is a good look.

Truth is you got 4 years of evidence there. And it's buying high atm. You have to judge where they are. Other wise what kind of asinine crap could we say about Yamamoto who put up 11 goals in 27 games.
Tell me, as we all to say the same thing. Oh clearly it's sustainable, he's a 30+ goal guy......

No, and Nylander doesn't get special treatment in that conversation. You got 20 goals 60 points. Basically averaged out over 5 years.
He shows more consistency at some point fine, but he hasn't and here is where we are.

Two of those games where just hot goaltending, Gibson and Quick shut the door which happens, TO gave up nothing in those games but lost close games in extra time. Losing 1-0 in a shootout and 2-1 in OT is hardly crumbling. They also followed that by beating Tampa 4-3 and preceded the trip by beating Florida and Pittsburgh. This is the sort of crap that makes you leaf trolls so irritating. You cherry pick stats and situations to prove a point but ignore 80% of the pertinent information that makes your argument silly.

Oilers have the best but Philly wins the 4-on-4 w/ Hart in net versus "Yamamoto" (spoiler - go high!)

when you got 16 games left, are clutching onto a playoff spot in 3rd place in your division and possibly no WC out of it, and you lose 3 of 4 games to bottom feeders.....This is the very definition of falling apart.
You can justify this however you want. None of those teams should have even been in a position to win. Yet they did.
Excuses excuse excuses.
This isn't trolling. These are facts.
3 points ahead of the Panthers who had a game in hand.
This is the reality of how the season was ending for TO. They should have had 6 points and comfortably in control of their own playoffs.....but they weren't and it wasn't looking good.

And yet they were in a playoff spot and had been cutting down their goals against while missing Muzzin and Rielly. (Rielly came back the last game before the shut down)

Neither one of use will ever know if they would have made it because we didn't get the final 13 games. But you are kidding yourself if you think their entry was a lock.

Improving defense.... they gave up 5 goals to the sharks.
Campbell was putting up a .928 save% in the 2 goal loss to ANA. Who out shot you. A team with virtually no offense out shot you. But yeah...improved defense.
LA another team with no defense put up 36 shots on you. Anderson had to stand on his head.

Please, get over the fact their defense sucks.

Cool story, if you are just looking to get a Leafs fan mad by shouting the same old tired crap that all you trolls like to say, you may as well quit. I couldn't care less what anyone on here says.