Pesce without trading big 4

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How about we just put the Pesce stuff to bed. He's not worth an elite forward. Carolina can keep him and all the Caniac's can keep telling everyone he's won 5 Norris trophies. I am so sick of this ****.

Ryminister_27 liked this.

Jun. 10, 2020 at 1:19 p.m.

#28

Canes Baby

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Quoting: Terry_AkiSauce

Ya picks added to a team that needs them! LMAO this is just ridiculous now. Dont give us picks unless its a 1st,

Jun. 10, 2020 at 1:20 p.m.

#29

Canes Baby

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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

Hes not getting traded. All of these trades are for fun, you need to settle down. Or get off the site before you give yourself an aneurysm.

Pmwalker liked this.

Jun. 10, 2020 at 1:21 p.m.

#30

Terry_AkiSauce

Joined: Jun. 2019

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Quoting: jslongo

Ya picks added to a team that needs them! LMAO this is just ridiculous now. Dont give us picks unless its a 1st,

Did you not read what I said? Picks are moved in trades after the fact all the time. Its so you dont lose your picks but can still gain assets because they aren't useless

Jun. 10, 2020 at 1:21 p.m.

#31

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Quoting: jslongo

Hes not getting traded. All of these trades are for fun, you need to settle down. Or get off the site before you give yourself an aneurysm.

I am trying to get banned for my own good here. I definitely have a problem. Lol

Jun. 10, 2020 at 1:22 p.m.

#32

Canes Baby

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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

I am trying to get banned for my own good here. I definitely have a problem. Lol

or just log out

Jun. 10, 2020 at 1:23 p.m.

#33

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Quoting: jslongo

or just log out

I really should, I get so annoyed with the crap on here.

Jun. 10, 2020 at 1:24 p.m.

#34

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Quoting: jslongo

or just log out

Not you though

Jun. 10, 2020 at 1:24 p.m.

#35

Canes Baby

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Quoting: Terry_AkiSauce

Did you not read what I said? Picks are moved in trades after the fact all the time. Its so you dont lose your picks but can still gain assets because they aren't useless

Quoting: jslongo

Ya picks added to a team that needs them! LMAO this is just ridiculous now. Dont give us picks unless its a 1st,

jesus man. you dont get it

Jun. 10, 2020 at 2:16 p.m.

#36

dzmets

Joined: Apr. 2020

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Quoting: Terry_AkiSauce

Picks would probably be flipped for either a rental or to a rebuilding team that has someone the Canes want. While Toronto hasn't had the best right shot dmen, they've had NHLers who they haven't been able to cut due to their contracts and they traded for Barrie this year which obviously didn't go as planned but Lily isn't knocking him out of a spot. They had to put up with 1 year of Ceci to get out of that Zaitsev contract and gave Lily another year to develop, hes gonna be a beast

I am not sure why you would want to trade Lily now then. He has a lower cap hit then Pesce by far and the leafs could definitely use the cap space.

Jun. 10, 2020 at 2:29 p.m.

#37

Terry_AkiSauce

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Quoting: dzmets

I am not sure why you would want to trade Lily now then. He has a lower cap hit then Pesce by far and the leafs could definitely use the cap space.

I wouldn't do this trade personally, Im not the one who proposed it. Pesce is in a good defensive system in Carolina and I'd hate to see him fail to live up to expectations in Toronto's system. Lily on the otherhand was coached by Keefe already and I think is ready to make the jump

Jun. 10, 2020 at 2:51 p.m.

#38

Pmwalker

Joined: Apr. 2019

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Nylander a good player but elite?? He’s not there yet and it remains to be seen if he reaches that level ever. Easily the most overused term on these boards. I find it funny some fans claim their team has 4, 5 or even 6 elite players.

Jun. 10, 2020 at 2:59 p.m.

#39

Joined: May 2018

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Quoting: Pmwalker

There are teams that can say that, to be fair. It's when it's applied to players like Nylander that it gets overused

Jun. 10, 2020 at 5:23 p.m.

#40

firezfurx

Dubas isnt a genius

Joined: Apr. 2020

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Quoting: Caniac2000

He is lol, do I need to go pull out analytics for display, or would you like Links to investigate it yourself?

He had an xGa TM REL in the 7th ****ing Percentile. Do you know how bad he is? Also he is not 2-way, he is shutdown.

His shot share was 30th percentile.

His shots against was 28th.

I hate how people say "go look at the advanced stats" when the advanced stats say he has the defensive responsibility of a potato.

Ryminister_27 liked this.

Jun. 10, 2020 at 5:24 p.m.

#41

firezfurx

Dubas isnt a genius

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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

Agreed. His advanced stats are hot garbage as well:

He had an xGa TM REL in the 7th ****ing Percentile. Do you know how bad that is? Also he is not 2-way, he is shutdown.

His shot share was 30th percentile.

His shots against was 28th.

I hate how people say "go look at the advanced stats" when the advanced stats say he has the defensive responsibility of a potato.

Jun. 10, 2020 at 5:56 p.m.

#42

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Quoting: firezfurx

His xGA was among the best in the league, do you know how good that is? Using precentiles is always bad on it's own because it doesn't consider things like QoC and QoT. I love how you're bashing analytics when you don't even seem to uunderstand the components.

Jun. 10, 2020 at 6:01 p.m.

#43

brocklesnar

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Canes have no need to move Pesce. They are a contending team.

Pmwalker liked this.

Jun. 10, 2020 at 6:22 p.m.

#44

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Quoting: firezfurx

They say that but only look at the stats that show him as awesome and ignore everything else. He's a good player sure but he certainly isn't elite.

firezfurx liked this.

Jun. 10, 2020 at 6:46 p.m.

#45

firezfurx

Dubas isnt a genius

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Quoting: Caniac2000

Dude, do you know what TM REL is? It takes into account both those things. He isn't bad offensively but his defense is ass. (https://mapleleafshotstove.com/toronto-maple-leafs-advanced-statistics/#leafsreport)

Jun. 10, 2020 at 6:59 p.m.

#46

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Quoting: Caniac2000

Pesce's xGA was the highest on his entire team. He's good but all his stats are inflated by the system in Carolina. Slavin is lightyears better. He's a good player no doubt but in TO he's still 3rd best defenceman at best. Muzzin and Rielly are both lightyears better.

Jun. 10, 2020 at 7:17 p.m.

#47

phillyjabroni

Joined: Mar. 2017

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Advanced stats are not indicative of a player's ability, free agency value, or trade market value. Especially stats like expected goals - they are purely descriptive stats. It's nice to look at them to see if they match up with the eye test and vise versa, but relying on them as a way of evaluating players is flawed.

Jun. 11, 2020 at 8:28 a.m.

#48

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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

Again, wrong. Systems don't inflate analytics as you think they do. He's actually lightyears better defensively than both D men for Toronto, He's better transitionallly than Muzzin and not that far behind Rielly. He's WAY better than you give him credit for. Analytically, he's probably a top 10 RD in the NHL. If you don't believe me ask @AFOX10900

Jun. 11, 2020 at 8:29 a.m.

#49

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Quoting: firezfurx

Again, no. TM REL is reknowned for using xGAR to calculate. xGAR doesn't account for QoT or QoC. Look at his RAPM on Evolving-Hockey. He's one of the best two way defeneman in the NHL

Jun. 11, 2020 at 9:01 a.m.

#50