With NSH's questionable RD depth and the fact that they just resigned Carrier to a very team friendly 3 year deal, I don't see this deal happening. NSH doesn't really need Johnsson either, they need a true top 6 forward much more than to trade for another middle 6 forward, of which they have quite a few. The value is probably fine, but I just don't see NSH being a fit.

VERY nice team here, Sammy. Couldn't you give my boy Cliffie $50k more?

To answer @villenash , I think Nashville makes this trade in the hope that Johnsson becomes a "true top 6 forward." Their investment is modest enough.

If NSH misses out on signing one of the top free agent forwards, I could see them going the trade route. However, I don't see Johnsson being too exciting of an acquisition. He has been playing with the likes of Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, and Marner, and he hasn't scored at more than a 3rd liner/borderline 2nd liner pace. I don't see him doing much better with lesser talent on the NSH roster.

I actually see Nashville being a fit. He showed glimpses of pure top-6 forward and Nashville likes to invest into assets with potential from looking at their moves. They only spend 3rd round pick if Johnsson investment fails and he only stays 40-50 point mid-6 winger, but if it pays off and he becomes that top-6 winger, I think they would be very happy to spend just a 2nd rounder and Carrier/Allard for cheap top-6 winger. Thats why I think they would do it. Nashville has Fabbro and Ellis for long future and whoever of those two (Allard/Carrier) is not included in that trade probably gets the 3RD job.

Fair enough.

If Sandin is not on the team next year, hopefully the Leafs will do the right thing and trade him to a team that will not further screw up his development.

WHAT?? He is barely 20, if he does not make the team, he would develop for one more year. "screwing up his development" would be if he played despite not being able to.

Sandin is 20. Has nothing left to prove or learn in the AHL. He is way better and more ready than LIljegren. He has played 28 games in the NHL, but became worse with each game in both stints because the team refuses to get him a proper partner - like every single other NHL team does with their young Ds (but which Toronto has refused to do - with Dermott as well). If the team is not going to make room for him to play in the NHL, and do so with a proper partner - then trade him (Like Nashville did with Girard and Montreal did with Sergachev).

What are you talking about. 20 year old defensemen have always something to learn in the AHL if possible. He looked worse with each game because he wasnt good enough and played more than he shouldve played not because of bad partner. Liljegren is becoming a more defensively reliable Dman in AHL each year. 21 years old and ready for NHL. Its either Liljegren or Sandin playing and Im fine with either playing for Leafs next season. And Im comfortable with each playing in AHL next season. They are still far from developed commodity and if coaching staff and development staff decides either of them is not yet ready for NHL action, they are not playing in NHL. Leafs are not trading Sandin or Liljegren because they might spend one more year developing lol. Thats just stupid. Leafs are building Sandin to be 1LHD who would replace Rielly in couple years in that spot. And you need to fully develop those guys if you want them to be like that.

20 year old defensemen are never fully developed for NHL and I hope fans would understand that. Leafs are not trading Sandin and neither should they even if he plays in AHL to start next year. Remember.. his NHL stint this year was ONLY due to injuries. Not because they planned on doing so.

Reality. Maybe you should look at how other teams develop defensemen. You know teams that have over and over again developed top D - unlike Toronto. In almost all cases, where they actually become good, they are brought into the NHL playing in a top-4 role, against solid competition, with a good partner who can mentor them. Not the BS that Toronto pulls. Dermott with 38 games experience left on the third pairing with zero games experience Ozhiganov. Sandin paired with Barrie who doesn't know where his own end is or zero games experience LIljegren. Liljegren playing with equally inexperienced Sandin.

No team that develops good defensemen does that, and no team that does that will ever develop good experience.

Adam Boqvist, 19 years old. Looked completely lost at the start of the season. Looked like a budding star by the end of the season. So in both cases the exact opposite of Sandin. That is what happens when you properly mentor a small, young, offensive-minded D with someone like Duncan Keith.

They did the same thing the year before with a 19-year-old Joki, who looks like a future 1RHD in Buffalo.

Boston put a 19-year-old Carlo with Chara and then in then starting in the playoffs that year brought in 19-year-old McAvoy by partnering him with Chara.

19-year old Girard was partnered with Eric Johnson.

20-year-old Quinn Hughes was partnered with Tanev.

All excellent, experienced D who can properly mentor a talented young D into the lineup, show him what to do, cover for his flaws, and give him the confidence that he can do his thing without the team getting scored on.

Even in the odd case where they can’t mentor their young talented D with a experienced veteran they put the young D with a massive, physical, defensive minded D, as was the case with Makar being partnered with 6’ 5” 220 lbs Graves.

Then you have the complete idiots in Toronto. Hey lets put our small, offensively talented teenage D with Barrie - the worst D in the NHL when it comes to defensive play - or even better, lets put him with another equally inexperienced D so they can get slaughtered together. I thought the Sabres were the leagues stupidest team when it came to developing young talent. But when it comes to D, Toronto wins hands down. Sadly most Toronto fans are so clueless the the absolute fact that no one else does this that they think it is normal. It’s not.



That's not how it works. When a young D is not ready it is apparent right away. See Chabot in 2016. When a D looks good in his first game or two – as Sandin certainly did when he was recalled in January and then starts to look terrible it is because the team has put the player in a position to fail – which Toronto definitely did.



Neither one should be playing with zero NHL experience, small, Lehtonen. Other organizations are certainly laughing at what Toronto is doing. If the Toronto continues to develop their young D the way they have been doing – which by the way is 100% the exact opposite of how they have developed top-level forwards – their young D will only reach a small fraction of their potential.



When a 20 year old D is currently worse than he was 10 months ago you are not developing a 1LHD. If you compare Carlson to Sandin they are essentially identical to the end of their first season. Same age, near identical NHL, AHL and WJC experience, production etc.
One with 6 points in 22 NHL games averaging 15:15 TOI. The other with 8 points in 28 games averaging 14:19 TOI
One with 48 points in 77 AHL games, the other with 53 points in 78 AHL games.
One on the WJC all-star team with 7 points in 7 games, the other the top-D at the WJC with 10 points in 7 games.

But Carlson was 20 minutes a game by the playoffs and almost 23 minutes a game by his second season. That’s an example of good development, and 90% of legitimate top-4 D in the NHL were either playing top-4 minutes right off the bat or were within 50 games or so. They were not sitting on the third pairing against playing against the weakest competition in the NHL for 3 years running like Dermott or regressing while in the lineup like Sandin. Sandin will probably become a 1LHD if, and likely only if, he is traded to a team that will develop him properly. And in that case at least Toronto will get a good return for him.

I know what other teams do. And I would like Leafs to get Liljegren paired with Muzzin and Sandin with someone experienced. That's how I would've done things. However the way they do it is exactly like they developed their top young talent. Matthews and Nylander and Hyman were all rookies and play together pretty much whole season. That went against the grain and it worked. Also Sandin hasnt regressed. He started season not being ready and ended season being ready for NHL hockey. Liljegren is ready for NHL hockey since age 20, they are just tweaking the skills for smoother jump. When they do something different, it doesn't mean it's stupid. Those examples are all great and I would personally do the same thing but I trust Dubas and Keefe to develop those defensemen in a way where they would be rock solid two-way defensemen for Leafs for many years to come. Sandin is progressing as was predicted by my swedish scouting colleagues. Let young guys develop. You mentioned Jokiharju.. he dipped in half a season, was that regression? No. Just great start caught up to him. That happens. Nobody is laughing at Leafs in the league. Actually a lot of teams were pissed at Leafs because of Lehtonen signing. Lehtonen is experienced guy from many leagues and levels.

In conclusion, Sandin's development path is going just as expected and he would be a 1LHD for Leafs for many years to come. He is a better player than he was a year, 10 months, 5 months ago.

Different doesn't mean bad. Most NHL's defensemen didn't play more than 3rd pairing minutes until like 22-23 years of age.. it's normal development path for young two-way defensemen. However we can agree that we both think Leafs should play them with more experienced players.

Matthews, Nylander and Hyman were playing as the top line going up against the top competition. They were not sitting on a super sheltered fourth line for 3 years. They also had little choice. They were coming out of the league's basement.



Sandin regressed like crazy. You can look at the Athletic's game reports where he went from 5 stars almost every game when he first came up in January to 1 star most games in the couple weeks before the shutdown. I went back an watched every game a second time, just watching Sandin's shifts. A completely different player towards the end and not in a good way. He was put in an impossible situation with a completely inappropriate partner and stopped playing anything that could be considered to be resembling his game. He looked completely lost. You can also just look at his lack of shot attempts. 11 iCFs during his first 6 game stretch. 28 iCFs during his first 11 games of his second stint. 9 iCFs during his final 11 games.



That is opposite of reality. He started the season being ready - something that was obvious to anyone who watched the training camp and exhibition games. He returned to the team in January ready. He finished the season not looking ready at all. He didn't look ready in this training camp and didn't get into the exhibition game. He has regressed badly.



No, doing something different does not mean it is stupid. Doing something stupid is stupid.



Why? Neither has any experience developing young talented D into top-notch NHL D. This team brought in Harper, Schmaltz, Kivi, Gravel and several others so they wouldn't need to use Sandin or Liljegren as injury replacement. Then didn't use them as such.



So?



It's not and he isn't. I understand that everyone thinks they have to be a completely deluded fan who thinks that their team can do nothing wrong and all of their prospects are turn out be great. But this team has harmed Sandin's development.



A very small percentage of top level D are playing 3rd pairing minutes until like 22-23 years of age. Most top level D never played 3rd pairing, or did so for fewer than 50 games. And most are playing top pairing or at least top-4 minutes by age 21 - unless they went the college route.



The Leafs don't have the D to play them with and they can't acquire those D because they have all their cap used up for a couple players. They need Muzzin to be going up against the best and can't afford to have him playing with a rookie. They should have enough respect for Sandin to trade him to a team that will develop him properly.

Its not stupid and has been done before. Slavin-Pesce was pairing for Canes in their rookie years and it worked. They didnt hurt any development. Im not saying Leafs are perfect developing team, Im saying they do things differently and we will see if it works or not. I believe it would work. And no, again, they are not trading either of them and they are building them into top-4 defensemen.

Slavin and Pesce almost never played together during their rookie years - about 50 minutes together. Rookie Slavin played with 34-year-old Hainsey (over 800 games experience before that season) and rookie Pesce played with 35-year-old John-Michael Liles (over 700 games experience before that season). Despite Slavin and Pesce being much bigger players than Sandin and Liljegren the Canes still knew better. Every team does except for Toronto. It will result in failure.