this is just proving Trouba isnt a very good defender.... Trouba is good at preventing / producing shot attemps... then you use the adjustment for 5v5 and its no longer good...gf/60 is pretty awful while his biggest strength ends up actually on slight better than Kuzy... idk if this guy actually understands what he is sending

Or just watch the game and form an opinion.

im all in favor of that. i think people use advance stats to make a great player look average when you common sense tells you hes great. too many people on this site love to send these graphs and dont understand what they actually mean

Supposedly if he does retire it is to play 1 year with his brother in Sweden and potentially come back the following year. In essence it’s not really throwing away $5.5M. He’d make $ a year in Sweden so he really wouldn’t throw away $5.5M it may be like $3M he throws away? Idk. But NYR might give him a good job for them making $2M per let’s say for retiring early and freeing up cap space so he gets that $ just over time.

I think for defensemen they are literally of zero use. For wingers, there’s some stuff there, but only in the context of backing up what youre seeing.

yes, dude?

The data posted actually shows that Trouba isn't very good at generating offense (expected even strength offence value of -0.1, but decent on the PP 1.6), while his defensive contribution (even strength defense 0.6 but -2.2 on the PK) is reasonable. Most of his negative value comes from his use on the penalty kill, which could likely be reduced if this weakness was accounted for. If used properly he would likely add more than 0.1 WAR, but he still isn't all that good.

On Kuznetsov, all value he adds offensively is negated by how bad he is on D, and by the deficit he puts his team at by taking penalties. Additionally, all of his line-mates are made worse by playing with him. This is all happening despite Kuznetsov getting some of the easiest deployment on the team.

Both are overrated, and both aren't very good. It just seems that Trouba is likely less bad than Kuznetsov.

You're free to disagree with the data if you find hockey more enjoyable that way, and though it's true not everything that happens can be efficiently quantified, it's equally as naive to think that someone can watch a given game and lift certainties from from their impressions. The trouble I always have, is if Kuznetsov is such a star-player, why doesn't it show up in his impact? Is he really doing so much that goes undetected that his on-ice metrics are invalid? Seems unlikely. We should use all the tools available to evaluate players so invalidating one method, be it analytics or anecdotal impressions, isn't smart. That being said, people have bias and we miss things all the time, so it's important to be able to cross-reference personal feelings with actual metrics.

i said that? i said hes "okay at offense"... thats basically the same thing as not good? and i said hes barely a good defender .6 is :reasonable" but in reality thats the same as "barely good". up to this point you have repeated everything ive said just using different word? which is fine but seems pointless. Kuzy like i said is elite offensively and not good at defense. Again what i said. lol so up to this point we are 2 paragraphs in and have the same views. Kuzy isnt overrated... people know hes terrible at defense and elite at offense.... top 30 in ppg last 3 years and top 3 in playoff points last 3 years. i wouldnt say thats overrated considering what we already know, right? i will disagree that i dont put stock in data that values all shots the same and the volume of shots taken.....Corsi/Fen are amazing tools but sometimes common sense is the best tool.... like Coots vs mcdavid. Advance stats would tell you coots is better,right? who are you drafting? also repeating stuff with different words and making 5 paragraphs seems a little extra not that i dont love having this conversation

- I was disagreeing with you. I said Trouba isn't very good on offense, that he's a reasonable defender, but that he would have better D impact if he was utilized differently. You said, "Trouba is barely a good defender but has okay offensive upside". To say again, my conclusion on Kuznetsov is that he's just bad. Meaning that if you think he is good, you overrate him.

- Knowing Kuznetsov can't defend doesn't make it more palatable that he can't. If you score 2 goals every game but give up 3, you still lose.

- Wrong, Kuznetsov is not by any measure better than McDavid.

- None of EW's metrics use Corsi or Fenwick as their most key components.

coots is Couturier and lol i cant continue to have this conversation. agree to disagree. to be clear you are generally describing plus/minus hes a career +61.... hes on the ice for more goals than goals against... i mean thats proven so that logic is just inaccurate. in 7 seasons hes been a - 2x and it was a -2. so he might give up a lot of shots/chances but for the most part he scores more than he lets up 5v5.... to say if you think hes good than hes overrated is just a silly comment. ... AGAIN your logic is hes on the ice for 2goals for and 3 against would make him disgusting negative correct? again common sense tells you this.... he defends poorly but hes an elite offensive forward take it or leave it. nitpicking again on the Trouba logic idc have a good day good talk lol

2 goals for and 3 against was an example, I never indicated those were Kuzentzov's numbers. I am also not talking about his career either, just what he is now. This is not a plus/minus problem. Your reading compression is seriously lacking, as our summations of Trouba were the inverse of each other. As I said earlier, if you enjoy hockey better with just cursory understanding, go off that. Just saying, "coots is Couturier", is hilarious.

the example was the exact definition of plus minus. 2gf vs 3ga -1 plus minus. lmfao my reading comprehension is fine... (compression hilarious chirp considering you dont know the correct word to use). you simply implied with you lazy example is that Kuzy generally is on theice for more ga than gf. if thats not why you gave the example why give it? my exact words are "so he might give up a lot of shots/chances but for the most part he scores more than he lets up 5v5" i think you have selective reading. last 3 years hes top 30 ppg and top 3 playoff points . is that good? cant tell? WAIT if thats good then he's overrated?

It WaS aN eXaMpLe..... lol love that. ill imply it but wont stand by my lazy claim. have a good day bud. lol

Also lets clear up this word usage

you said "Trouba isn't very good on offense" i said "okay offensive upside"


also i said "Trouba is barely a good defender" you said "he's a reasonable defender"

language people use to rate players....
elite
great
good "barely good" "reasonable"
okay (isnt very good) "okay upside"....
bad
terrible

hah how arrogant you are makes this funny... same view different words your "compression" or comprehension is awful