Forums/Armchair-GM

for mitch marner elite how much would a fair marner deal actually help TO

Created by: mhockey91
Initial Creation Date: Dec 20, 2020
Published: Dec 20, 2020 at 5:27
Team: 2020-21 Toronto Maple Leafs
Free Agent Signings
CREATEDYEARSCAP HIT
Marner, Mitch5$9,250,000
Buyouts
  • Mikhail Grabovski: $0
Retained Salary Transactions
  • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2023
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
23$81,500,000$81,318,408$0$0$181,592
Left WingCenterRight Wing
TOR
Hyman, Zach
$2,250,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Matthews, Auston
$11,640,250
C
UFA - 4
TOR
Nylander, William
$6,962,366
RW, LW
UFA - 4
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
$1,645,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
$11,000,000
C
NMC
UFA - 5
Marner, Mitch
$9,250,000
TOR
Robertson, Nicholas
$821,667
LW
RFA - 4
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
$3,500,000
C, LW
UFA - 3
TOR
Simmonds, Wayne
$1,500,000
RW, LW
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Vesey, Jimmy
$900,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
TOR
Thornton, Joe
$700,000
C, LW
NMC
UFA - 1
TOR
Spezza, Jason
$700,000
C, RW
UFA - 1
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000
LD
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Brodie, TJ
$5,000,000
RD
NMC
UFA - 4
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000
G
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
$5,625,000
LD
NMC
UFA - 4
TOR
Holl, Justin
$2,000,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 3
TOR
Campbell, Jack
$1,650,000
G
UFA - 2
TOR
Dermott, Travis
$874,125
LD/RD
RFA - 1
TOR
Lehtonen, Mikko
$925,000
LD
UFA - 1
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
TOR
Engvall, Pierre
$1,250,000
LW, C
RFA - 2
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
$10,903,000
RW
UFA - 5
TOR
Barabanov, Alexander
$925,000
RW, LW
UFA - 1
TOR
Bogosian, Zach
$1,000,000
RD
NTC
UFA - 1

Embed Code

  • To display this team on another website or blog, add this iFrame to the appropriate page
  • Customize the height attribute in the iFrame code below to fit your website appropriately. Minimum recommended: 400px.

Text-Embed

Click to Highlight
Dec 20, 2020 at 8:26
#26
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 39,365
Likes: 11,618
Quoting: mhockey91
Hometown premium is such a good way to put it. I get tavares because he was a UFA, and leafs offered less than isles, but in Marners case, he’s from TO, was drafted by TO, you’d think he’d take a more fair contract to play in Toronto. Usually you see hometown discounts but this was the exact opposite of that


Yea poor teams or teams with poor "locations" might have to pay premium. But Marner is a Toronto boy, Nylander got to play a with Matthews, and Matthews could have showcased his talents for 5 more years with a good, maybe a very good team before he leaves as UFA. Hey I don't blame the players for extracting as much money as they can, but the team is weaker because of their contracts. Probably the big three will be long term unhappier as they are spending the prime of their careers with little chance of winning a Cup, heck not even going to a Cup Final. They will probably die 70 years from now will ten of millions of dollars in assets. Gee taking less money might have made them happier.
mhockey91 liked this.
Dec 20, 2020 at 8:28
#27
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 1,220
Quoting: palhal
Yea poor teams or teams with poor "locations" might have to pay premium. But Marner is a Toronto boy, Nylander got to play a with Matthews, and Matthews could have showcased his talents for 5 more years with a good, maybe a very good team before he leaves as UFA. Hey I don't blame the players for extracting as much money as they can, but the team is weaker because of their contracts. Probably the big three will be long term unhappier as they are spending the prime of their careers with little chance of winning a Cup, heck not even going to a Cup Final. They will probably die 70 years from now will ten of millions of dollars in assets. Gee taking less money might have made them happier.


I know some people like nylander but Dubai really should've just dealt him in the standoff. I really think the long drawn out standoff made him panic to get it figured out wit marner and Matthews asap.
mhockey91 and palhal liked this.
Dec 20, 2020 at 9:11
#28
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 22,663
Likes: 7,076
Quoting: mhockey91
It was the whole situation. You can’t even sit here with a straight face and tell me Dubas handled that properly. If he would’ve sent the message to the team and traded nylander for a haul, Matthew’s and Marner definitely would’ve signed better deals. Or on the flip side, if Nylander wasn’t being so greedy at the time, Matthew’s and marner would’ve been signed to better deals as well.

Nylander/Dubas situation set the precedent that in a staring contest, Dubas will lose. The agents fully took advantage of that and exploited him. There is a reason why marner is overpaid and Matthew’s term is too short


He won on the Nylander deal. It's obvious at this point but people will say whatever they want to justify the hate the spew at the Leafs. All the deals are fine, star players are worth what they make. Paying mid range guys too much kills your cap. Dubas doesn't do that.
Dec 20, 2020 at 9:22
#29
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 15,868
Likes: 6,892
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
He won on the Nylander deal. It's obvious at this point but people will say whatever they want to justify the hate the spew at the Leafs. All the deals are fine, star players are worth what they make. Paying mid range guys too much kills your cap. Dubas doesn't do that.



He didn’t win on the nylander deal because he set the stage for future negotiations. Maybe nylanders contract is fine, but the whole situation was poorly handled. You see guys like Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Hedman, kucherov, mackinnon (who announced he will take one), all taking team friendly deals to win a cup. Why couldn’t Marner? Also don’t even bother with the tax BS in Florida because it’s not even true. I’ll just debunk that before you even mention it. The fact is, leafs overpaid their stars and it’s gonna hurt them in the future. Having 3 guys make combined $33+ million isn’t sustainable, especially considering Reilly is up in 2 years, and Freddy in one year... wonder what they’ll ask for... the stage is set for overpays


https://twitter.com/walsha/status/1307480088800182272?s=21
Dec 20, 2020 at 9:43
#30
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 541
Likes: 175
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
This guy has wisdom, tell us all about how Vesey is better than Tavares please.


Its about grit, clutch performance, and leadership. Jimmy Vesey has all of those. Tavares is the easter island statue personified. But he cost 11 million a year
Dec 20, 2020 at 9:44
#31
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 1,220
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
He won on the Nylander deal. It's obvious at this point but people will say whatever they want to justify the hate the spew at the Leafs. All the deals are fine, star players are worth what they make. Paying mid range guys too much kills your cap. Dubas doesn't do that.


Like I've said, it's fine to give large deals, but you better get the term so the deal age well(covid aside) mcdavid took 12.5 but for 8 years, the way the cap was going that was going to age just fine, same with draisaitl. Leafs paid premium for 5 and 6 years deals. It's just bad business because by the time those start to be decent deals they're either expiring or about to.
mhockey91 liked this.
Dec 20, 2020 at 9:50
#32
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 22,663
Likes: 7,076
Quoting: Theozler
Like I've said, it's fine to give large deals, but you better get the term so the deal age well(covid aside) mcdavid took 12.5 but for 8 years, the way the cap was going that was going to age just fine, same with draisaitl. Leafs paid premium for 5 and 6 years deals. It's just bad business because by the time those start to be decent deals they're either expiring or about to.


Doesn't matter, the Leafs don't have any handcuffing bad deals like the Lucic's of the world. That is what kills the cap, not superstars making big money.
Dec 20, 2020 at 9:51
#33
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 22,663
Likes: 7,076
Quoting: LGR
Its about grit, clutch performance, and leadership. Jimmy Vesey has all of those. Tavares is the easter island statue personified. But he cost 11 million a year


For the people who don't get it, give us an in-depth breakdown with supporting evidence. We wouldn't want people to think you are just a really pointless troll.
Dec 20, 2020 at 9:53
#34
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 15,868
Likes: 6,892
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
For the people who don't get it, give us an in-depth breakdown with supporting evidence. We wouldn't want people to think you are just a really pointless troll.


I mean saying vesey is better than tavares is trolling...
Dec 20, 2020 at 9:58
#35
Banned
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5,011
Likes: 1,636
Quoting: Saskleaf
Can you please explain how this team is any different? It's literally the same team with 2 more healthy scratches, which aren't even that necessary with the taxi squads this year.


Yeah it’s basically the same team but at least they have enough space to resign Andersen in 2021.

Quoting: palhal
Carolina's Aho and Marner contracts came up at the same time. For the two previous years they had identical stats. Aho signed for 8.45m X 5 years, Marner 10.693 for 6 years. Based on Aho contract if the Marner had signed a comparable contract for six years, 9m would have been appropriate. I'll never understand why the Leafs handed out "hometown premium contracts to their big three, 4.5m too much.


Quoting: mhockey91
Hometown premium is such a good way to put it. I get tavares because he was a UFA, and leafs offered less than isles, but in Marners case, he’s from TO, was drafted by TO, you’d think he’d take a more fair contract to play in Toronto. Usually you see hometown discounts but this was the exact opposite of that


TBH, Marner and his camp did not take advantage of what could’ve been a really good situation. If he settled for 9 million dollars, he would’ve been loved by all the fans & considered a hometown hero. But since he squeezed the GM for every last penny, he put himself in a really toxic environment in which the fans make him the scapegoat & there is a lot more unnecessary pressure. You can tell that he’s lost all his confidence by watching him play, he’s extremely disengaged & makes lots of mental mistakes.
mhockey91 and Saskleaf liked this.
Dec 20, 2020 at 10:10
#36
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 22,663
Likes: 7,076
Quoting: mhockey91
I mean saying vesey is better than tavares is trolling...


Obviously lol
mhockey91 liked this.
Dec 20, 2020 at 10:19
#37
Its Tru-deau
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 7,301
Likes: 3,726
Quoting: mhockey91
Same team, but better set up for the long term with a cheaper marner deal. Also can someone please explain taxi squad to me because I keep seeing people post teams with that. Does that basically mean a team can carry up to 5 extra guys or whatever that don’t count against the salary cap?


Hmm, it does help them, yes, but really not as much as people think, that's my point.

Yes, that's what a taxi squad is.
mhockey91 liked this.
Dec 20, 2020 at 10:23
#38
backcheck>paycheck
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 398
Likes: 190
Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
@mhockey91 Honestly, this team looks solid on paper. Elite offence, the top 4 defence is statistically very good. If Marner bounces back to his 2018/19 form, I think they could be the best possession driving team in the NHL.


If Marner bounces back? he was on pace for 94 points again this past season...
Dec 20, 2020 at 10:34
#39
backcheck>paycheck
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 398
Likes: 190
The reality is, we can argue about these contracts, and fantasize about how nice it would have been if the kids were all making under 7 mil on a 4 or 5 year deal, but it didn't happen. The silver lining is, the Leafs have no Johnsons, no Mathesons, no Komarovs and no Backes'. Despite these contracts not being ideal for the team, otherwise, Dubas and friends have managed the cap very well thus far.

Personally, I see the current Leafs team a lot like the Duchene-era Avs... loads of talent, but still kind of a bubble team that just can't get over the hump. I expect them to take a step back for a year or two after this year to retool and give some ice time to prospects to fill out the bottom 6, and then compete for a cup a few seasons from now when the kids are all in their prime and the cap has(hopefully) gone up a little bit. The big 3 are still very young. Imagine how good they'll be in 3 years.
mhockey91 liked this.
Dec 20, 2020 at 10:37
#40
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,954
Likes: 1,220
Edited Dec 20, 2020 at 10:46
Quoting: DartGuy86
The reality is, we can argue about these contracts, and fantasize about how nice it would have been if the kids were all making under 7 mil on a 4 or 5 year deal, but it didn't happen. The silver lining is, the Leafs have no Johnsons, no Mathesons, no Komarovs and no Backes'. Despite these contracts not being ideal for the team, otherwise, Dubas and friends have managed the cap very well thus far.

Personally, I see the current Leafs team a lot like the Duchene-era Avs... loads of talent, but still kind of a bubble team that just can't get over the hump. I expect them to take a step back for a year or two after this year to retool and give some ice time to prospects to fill out the bottom 6, and then compete for a cup a few seasons from now when the kids are all in their prime and the cap has(hopefully) gone up a little bit. The big 3 are still very young. Imagine how good they'll be in 3 years.


The issue is that this isn't basketball, just have stars wins you nothing, you could have 7 players making ten million that were worth those contrac and you'd get wrecked.
mhockey91 liked this.
Dec 20, 2020 at 11:11
#41
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 219
Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Yeah it’s basically the same team but at least they have enough space to resign Andersen in 2021.

TBH, Marner and his camp did not take advantage of what could’ve been a really good situation. If he settled for 9 million dollars, he would’ve been loved by all the fans & considered a hometown hero. But since he squeezed the GM for every last penny, he put himself in a really toxic environment in which the fans make him the scapegoat & there is a lot more unnecessary pressure. You can tell that he’s lost all his confidence by watching him play, he’s extremely disengaged & makes lots of mental mistakes.


How can you say that Marner and his camp did not take advantage of what could have been a really good situation when they negioated a fair market deal that both Marner and the Leafs agreed to on the date the contract was signed........looks like a great deal for both sides and Leafs signed a potential 100 point player and fan favourite in Toronto for the long-term.

I think I totally disagree with your comments about Marner as a hockey player........Marner is everything that is right about being an NHL hockey player, is a popular teammate and tremendous role model for hockey fans and especially younger hockey fans and a lot of less fortunate people in this world who he helps through alot of charitable causes.

When he puts up a 100 points in a 82 games schedule you will be saying what a great deal the Leafs made by signing him.
Dec 21, 2020 at 12:02
#42
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 15,868
Likes: 6,892
Quoting: TML_Tika
How can you say that Marner and his camp did not take advantage of what could have been a really good situation when they negioated a fair market deal that both Marner and the Leafs agreed to on the date the contract was signed........looks like a great deal for both sides and Leafs signed a potential 100 point player and fan favourite in Toronto for the long-term.

I think I totally disagree with your comments about Marner as a hockey player........Marner is everything that is right about being an NHL hockey player, is a popular teammate and tremendous role model for hockey fans and especially younger hockey fans and a lot of less fortunate people in this world who he helps through alot of charitable causes.

When he puts up a 100 points in a 82 games schedule you will be saying what a great deal the Leafs made by signing him.



With NHL scoring rising compared to what it was a few seasons ago, 100 points isn’t nearly impressive as it was. Marner would put up 65-85 points in the 2010-2016 NHL (depending on the year).

He’s a good player, but there is no doubt that he’s overpaid. Even leafs fans say he is. That really isn’t debatable. No one is debating that’s he’s a good person or even teammate, he’s just overpaid.

https://editorinleaf.com/2019/09/14/toronto-maple-leafs-pverpaid/amp/
Dec 21, 2020 at 12:44
#43
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 219
Quoting: mhockey91
With NHL scoring rising compared to what it was a few seasons ago, 100 points isn’t nearly impressive as it was. Marner would put up 65-85 points in the 2010-2016 NHL (depending on the year).

He’s a good player, but there is no doubt that he’s overpaid. Even leafs fans say he is. That really isn’t debatable. No one is debating that’s he’s a good person or even teammate, he’s just overpaid.

https://editorinleaf.com/2019/09/14/toronto-maple-leafs-pverpaid/amp/


Agree with your points.......to be honest it is hard to tell if a player is really over-paid after only a few years into a contract....the bottom line is that the cream always rises to the top.....and I still have my money on Marner..........When the Leafs win the cup and Marner is major contributor....no one is going to care if he was over-paid.
mhockey91 liked this.
Dec 21, 2020 at 8:14
#44
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 15,868
Likes: 6,892
Quoting: TML_Tika
Agree with your points.......to be honest it is hard to tell if a player is really over-paid after only a few years into a contract....the bottom line is that the cream always rises to the top.....and I still have my money on Marner..........When the Leafs win the cup and Marner is major contributor....no one is going to care if he was over-paid.


That is true. If leafs win a cup over the course of marners contract and he plays a major role, no one is gonna doubt the value of the contract and all the criticism will be washed aside. On the flip side, if they don’t win a cup over the next 5 years, and marner either struggles in big games or their depth isn’t great, then that’s a different story
Dec 21, 2020 at 8:47
#45
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 39,365
Likes: 11,618
Quoting: Theozler
I know some people like nylander but Dubai really should've just dealt him in the standoff. I really think the long drawn out standoff made him panic to get it figured out wit marner and Matthews asap.


Quoting: Theozler
I know some people like nylander but Dubai really should've just dealt him in the standoff. I really think the long drawn out standoff made him panic to get it figured out wit marner and Matthews asap.


Just to continue your thought. When Nylander was signed, Leafs were in first place and 120 point pace. So they signed him, lost Leivo, and played worse with a poor Nylander.. Dubas as GM should get the some blame, but geez the Leafs have probably the most expensive management team in the league. Where was Shanahan and his time in all the Leafs negotiations? Getting back to Nylander. Larkin of Wings signed a 6.1 X 5 deal, and Pasternak signed a 6.67m X 6. Those were the comparables. Nylander should have been signed at 6.5 X 6 or traded, or just not signed. You're right, it set the stage for Matthews and Marner to bully the Leafs in negotiations.
mhockey91 liked this.
Dec 21, 2020 at 11:30
#46
Banned
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 5,011
Likes: 1,636
Quoting: DartGuy86
If Marner bounces back? he was on pace for 94 points again this past season...


Yeah but most of his points were empty net goals or secondary assists. He just wasn’t contributing at the same level as the 2 previous seasons. Kept losing the puck, whiffing on shots or passes & tripping over his own feet. He was more of a liability.
Dec 21, 2020 at 12:40
#47
backcheck>paycheck
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 398
Likes: 190
Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Yeah but most of his points were empty net goals or secondary assists. He just wasn’t contributing at the same level as the 2 previous seasons. Kept losing the puck, whiffing on shots or passes & tripping over his own feet. He was more of a liability.


Of his 16 goals, 10 were even strength and 6 pp(so no empty-netters?) His A1/60 was 1.5, and A2/60 was 0.9...
Dec 21, 2020 at 9:12
#48
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 541
Likes: 175
Quoting: mhockey91
I mean saying vesey is better than tavares is trolling...


its honestly not. You Toronto fans cant see past the fact he wears the C and makes 11 mil. He isn't a clutch performer. Vesey always comes up in big games even back to his high school days. Hes a true leader in the locker room and I think a future NHL captain
Dec 21, 2020 at 9:19
#49
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 15,868
Likes: 6,892
Quoting: LGR
its honestly not. You Toronto fans cant see past the fact he wears the C and makes 11 mil. He isn't a clutch performer. Vesey always comes up in big games even back to his high school days. Hes a true leader in the locker room and I think a future NHL captain


I’m not a leafs fan but I know that a 1C is better than a fourth liner...
Dec 21, 2020 at 9:46
#50
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 541
Likes: 175
Quoting: mhockey91
I’m not a leafs fan but I know that a 1C is better than a fourth liner...


Vesey is a 1st line winger in the right situation. Tavares is carried by his line mates and he is a stone man
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Remove Option
Submit Poll