thats a lot for granlund imo. Also we dont need ben harpur as the leafs had him but he requested a trade out of toronto

Sorry guys, I meant to retain 1 mil on Staal's contract.

Im not sure about that buffalo trade. I'm interested but at the end of the day im not looking to trade jokir so pass. Montour tho...definately

why would those teams make those trades?

Its kind of tons of maple leaf junk included in those deals.

Well, Nashville would because that's a huge overpayment for Granlund.

And I guess because it's the Leafs, suddenly top prospects (Sandin) and 1st are junk.

Why would buf consider trading joki

Both are overpayments.

NSH would probably rather just simplify to Hallander + 2nd for retained Granlund of TOR was willing. A 2nd + b prospect makes sense to me.

Sabres decline

Quantity is not quality, that offer for Granlund is Kerfoot (who's so good, hes in every Leaf trade proposal), a late 2nd and really 3 contracts, because none of those 3 are ever NHL regulars.

The offer to BUF for a very good rental forward in Staal and probably one of the most talented young defenders in Joki is Sandin, who's finishing his ELC without much of a cup of coffee in the NHL, a late 1st and again 2 contracts for two players who never make the nhl other than a callup or two.

Again if these offers had less useless players in them they might be closer.

The players youre adding don't have negative value, but they don't increase the offer.

Who cares if Kerfoot is in every trade proposal on a hockey forum?? Probably not a great idea to form opinions based on what you read on hockey forums. Leaf fans want to add the shiny new toy, and his contract is pretty well the only movable piece among their forwards.

Contract terms matter. Granlund is likely a better hockey player, but his contract is expiring. So 2 years of control over 26 yo Kerfoot puts his overall value pretty close to 1/2 season of control over 29 yo Granlund. The difference at most is a low pick.

Harpur is useless, like Petan more or less. Abramov is a B prospect, likely worth more than a 4th, but lets call them a wash.

So the deal works out to UFA Granlund for Kerfoot, Hallander (a decent prospect, better than Abramov) and a 2nd.

Therefore an overpay.

The Buffalo trade isn't realistic, adding in Joki and Sandin is needless and would never happen, but claiming Sandin and a 1st is junk is just plain incorrect.

P.S. just because prospects are not impact players in the NHL by age 20, does not mean they lose all value. Sandin in particular likely would have gotten in a few more NHL games this season, if he did not break a bone in his foot blocking a shot.

I never said Sandin and the 1st were junk, but they don't equal Joki, I just think you are overvaluing them. And the BUF deal doesn't help them. Adding players doesn't necessarily add value. Is Sandin done? No, of course not, but its incorrect to say hes still a top prospect after 3 pro years and barely a callup from a team who lost in the 1st round and then didn't qualify for the playoffs. Its also about team building, the Leafs prefer dermott now and next year will prefer someone else to him. Same with Lehtonen.

Does Sandin and a late 1st have value, of course and as I said if the deal was that for Staal, BUF does it. That's an overpayment. But even proposed deals have to be what TOR wants and what the other team wants, not just contract clearance of AHLers.

Every team in the nhl has a handful of veseys, malgins, petans, and dare I say BRACCOs. They carry limited if any value, adding them does nothing but subtract value.

Not sure why we are debating the Buffalo trade. I clearly say it's not going to happen. (I'm not the OP btw).

As I quite clearly point out - Nashville takes that proposed trade, because it's a clear win for them. You're initial post was asking why either team takes these trades. That is the reason.

Your initial post also says "tons of maple leaf junk", so I pointed out that 1st and top prospects usually aren't classed as junk. I'm not overvaluing them, because I said the Buffalo trade won't happen. Are you following?

It's not incorrect to say Sandin is a top prospect, he's turning 21 yo. He could have played in the OHL last year. Young dmen that are behind Dmen like Rielly, Muzzin and Dermott and play for teams that want to have success in the playoffs are not forced into an NHL lineup, it makes much more sense to develop them and let them dominate in lower leagues until they are more than ready to be in the NHL.

Your talk about others being brought into to play ahead of him this year, and it will happen next year, and not making a team that couldn't even make the playoffs is nonsense, likely intended to get a rise out of me, fairly juvenile stuff.

That leafs-Sabres trade is a cluster and I can't tell if I love or hate it.

Basically its Sandin and a 1st for Staal rental, Jokiharu and Huglen.

I don't want to trade Huglen right now but ok. However I'm not sure Sandin and a 1st gets Joker AND Staal. I get the rental part, but Joker is a guy who has been in our lineup for quite some time, and while Sandin is good, he hasn't been a full-time NHLer(might not be of his own doing).

Not trying to get a rise out of you, but the clock is definitely ticking on him. Based on the present team/contracts/positions, Liljegren (also at the end of his ELC), probably gets the call before Sandin, and I cant see the Leafs having a 3rd pair of Liljegren-Sandin. If anything Sandin and Lehtonen get consideration at 3LD or 7th dman based on Dermott's exposure in expansion.
Its not a damnation, its simply honest evaluation of the players development and the situation and depth chart. Sandin is still a "top" quality prospect IMO, but only in the organization, not a top one leaguewide. And top prospects don't get just consideration for 3rd pairing minutes. But again, RD is where the team needs help and I cant see a 3rd pairing of liljegren-sandin, or liljegren being ready for 2nd pairing.
Take for instance Travis Sanheim, he did his AHL years and then immediately went in at 2nd pair minutes. The difference was the professional progression of Sanheim in the AHL and the state of Philly that they could bring in Provorov at 19 yrs old, the next year Sanheim and Hagg joined and the next year Myers, even though they had a fairly capable defensive corps especially at LD.
Point being I don't see the progression in Sandin that makes it look like he'll be a top 4 dman, especially not in Toronto, and I don't think hes progressed enough professionally to carry value as a top defensive prospect. He has value, and a change could make a whole world of difference, but I don't think hes close to the current group of top defensive prospects.

As far as Maple Leaf junk, I just think a lot of these proposals lose credibility when they contain the same borderline AHL/NHLers like Petan, Malgin, etc... masquaerading as value

Sandin is the same age now as Sanheim was when he made the Flyers. Not sure the exact circumstances of him breaking in, but the fact he was 7th in 5v5 TOI doesn't sceam out to me that he walked right into a Top 4 role. Hagg for example was 1.5 min/game ahead of him that season. Myers didn't crack the NHL till 22, so not a great comparison for knocking Sandin who is yet to turn 21.

Sandin has played 1 professional game in the past 12 months, so I'm not really sure what your are basing these conclusions on? Prior to that he was pretty dominate in junir, very solid in the AHL, and decent in his spin in the NHL. Not sure if you noticed, but certain outside factors have had some impact on how and where prospects have been playing. Normal circumstances, and if he's healthy, he could very well of been able to steal Dermott's job. Some people aren't high on Dermott, but I am.

As far as next year goes, I find it much more likely that Sandin finds himself on the 3rd pair than Liljegren (who I believe is ready, but nothing will be handed to him).

Depending on how Seattle shakes out, if Dermott is no longer on the Leafs, Sandin has the 3LD spot pretty well locked up. I highly doubt Lehtonen is in consideration, he's a UFA, he's currently their 7th dman, he's 27, he hasn't shown much so far to force himself into the lineup, so really don't see why either him or the team would see him as a viable option next year.

There's also a chance that Rielly is no longer a Leaf next year. I'm a big Rielly fan, but with his defensive deficiencies, and the salary cap considerations, I'm not sure a long term contract worth $7.5+ is the best scenario going forward.

I wouldn't be shocked if this was how the Leafs defence looks like next year:
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Brodie
Sandin - Bogosian
Liljegren

Obviously not as good offensively, but just as good (or better) defensively, and plenty of puck movers still to get the puck moving in the right direction.

And personally, i still see no reason to think Sandin doesn't have Top 4 potential.