Arizona is looking to cut money to their payroll. Not add overpaid players that don't perform to it while paying almost the same amount.

Yotes decline.

Player requiring hip surgery = Player that doesn't perform. Got it.

Last two seasons Monahan under performing has netted him 76 points in 120 games to Dvorak's 69 in 126 games. From 2019 - 2021 Dvorak's contract was at its cheapest in terms of real dollars spent at 3.25 and 3.45 respectively, owing him 19.7 million dollars of a 26.4 million dollar contract over the next 4 years as opposed to paying Monahan 7 million less for 2 and moving on with a D prospect and a draft pick makes economical sense for the Coyotes

Monahan is the best piece in this deal, Dvorak would be the better fit in Calgary. Calgary gets cost certainty and Arizona gets in the top 50 of a draft with wild cards all over it. Lybushkin locks up the right side in Calgary.

I think we'd probably rather just hold on to Bemstrom.

Yeah fair enough, I personally think it's the kind of deal the Flames should look for but I can get that with some of the changes coming in Columbus it could be best to stick with the guys you know and see how it works out.

Monahan doesn't perform when it's needed most - playoffs. He's not that valuable. As I said, Arizona will be looking to cut money because they're generally not a high profit team (if any profit at all), and they won't wanna go from paying Dvorak $5.075M and $3.450M in the next 2 seasons, to paying Monahan $6.125M and $6M. They just re-signed Lybushkin and with his salary and Dvorak's combined, they can pay 2 players $6.425M instead of paying 1 player $6.125M and then having to find someone to replace Lybushkin.

You can't fairly compare production numbers of Dvorak and Monahan solely based on points alone. You leave out many factors like the player each player played with (Monahan frequently played with Gaudreau and sometimes Lindholm) along with coaching systems, where Arizona has always been a defensive minded team and Calgary was a highly offensive team until Sutter took over.

All this adding up, Arizona still declines.

0.7 PPG in the playoffs, Matthews is 0.75 with only two more games played, does that mean Matthews doesn't show up in the playoffs either? Nylander is 0.71 PPG in the playoffs and he's talked about as a playoff performer in Leafs circles now, what's the difference?

Long term you are paying Monahan 12.125 million, a lesser player 19.7 million in real dollars while filling a 1.35 Lybushkin with ELC or less than million dollar players like Kylington or a 2nd round draft pick, both pieces that Arizona gets in this trade.

Arizona gets the best player in the deal, a better long term economic outlook, you're absolutely grasping at straws here to the point that it looks like you'll just argue dead points to feel right, no point in continuing this conversation there is nothing that will come from it, I think you're wrong and you want to feel right, all that needs to be said! Have a great day.

Gotta think Arizona prefers four years of Dvorak to two years of Monahan.
IMO it's just a Flame dream that Gaudreau is going to sign long term in Calgary. By the way Tkachuk can be a UFA after two more seasons.

Could see that depending on where they think they are going, with Schmaltz already there making 5+, Hayton and Jenik coming up the ranks their C ice position is pretty well looked after in a couple years and with only 17.45 million tied up in forwards for the 2022-23 season as it stands right now it would look like a really good time for Arizona to reset.

I think Gaudreau is in line for a 3-5 year extension in Calgary, not the ultra long term deal but they will pay a little more for less term, I think either way it happens before July 28th or he is traded before July 28th

I have no idea what your Tkachuk comment has to do with anything above..

Oh, I believe the Flames want to resign Gaudreau....I'm just saying Gaudreau would prefer to take his qualifying offer this summer (or be traded) and become a UFA in summer of 2022
Just saying Tkachuk will be in the same position as Gaudreau next summer. I don't see him wanting to sign long term with the very middling Flames team.

There is no qualifying offer for Gaudreau, he will either be extended or traded by July 28th before his 5 team list kicks in, I personally think it will be an extension because Gaudreau at the end of the year really kicked it in gear under Sutter, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Tkachuk were really strong at the end of the year and I think he stays for a few years before the cap kicks up and then he can walk to Philly after a 3-5 year deal.
Tkachuk is an interesting one, I think a culture change keeps Tkachuk here, I think there is zero hint of a discount to stay in Calgary if he does though. If there was a deal in place for him this year that involved Eichel, Marner, Reinhart++, it would be hard not to consider with his 9 million due 2022

you dont see many deals for dvorak on here cause i just dont think anyone has a great read on what he is worth and its tough to find a coyotes fan that will give you their thoughts, as displayed by only leaf fans responding.
i like the columbus trade a lot but like the jackets fan said above it seems like a trust the devil you know over the devil you dont situation.

also good luck with the canuck guy, its like talking to a toddler after you take away his toys, could be one of the worst on here, great option for your first ignore list.

u
Gaudreau will be 28 years old this summer He is looking at "big deal" this summer of next...with a organization he wants to play for. Not waiting till he is 31 to 33 to sign elsewhere.

RFAs are getting paid close to UFA money...and as we have seen lately they don't want to wait around to wait to be UFA free in their latter years.

Just my opinion, the culture of the Flamers isn't good. Gaudreau and Tkachuk have no motivation to stay longer than their required 7 years in Calgary.

He can look as much as he likes, just like Taylor Hall did, Mike Hoffman, Vatanen, Hamonic etc. It's a flat cap, he can get a deal that gets him to when the cap inflates and get paid by a team he wants to play for. Philly has their own cap problems as long as the cap stays flat, they need to give Couturier a blank cheque, pay Hart, decide what to do with Giroux etc, etc, they won't be chomping at the bit to pay Gaudreau what he wants long term in a flat cap world.

I'm not sure if you're under the impression that Gaudreau is a RFA? I think we are crossing wires here.

It's not, that's what I mentioned in my last comment, Sutter and Muller coming in, a shift in culture this summer and building around Tkachuk keeps him here no problem. The only issue I see is if he regresses again and Calgary is forced to pay him 9 on his QO

What other targets could you see similar to Bemstrom?

Hahaha I could see that, like I said, long time listener, I have lurked this site long enough to take what he says with a grain of salt and probably just disregard what he thinks.

Matthews and Nylander aren't playoff performers - that's why Toronto hasn't made it past the first round with them. Don't know why Toronto is brought into the conversation, that seems like a weak point to try to justify something that's already wrong on your behalf.

It's still funny that you think Dvorak is a "lesser player" merely based on points per game when you clearly ignore the other factors that I pointed out that affect Dvorak's point totals. Did you miss them just to try to justify your point more?

So over those same 4 years, you expect Arizona to rather pay Monahan $12.125M for 2 seasons, plus whatever he signs for (lets say it the same AAV he's currently on, so $6.375M x 2 = $12.750), so now Arizona pays $24.875M for a player, instead of $19.7M. That doesn't seem cheaper. Or do you just expect Arizona to let Monahan walk to free agency and then lose this deal even more? That doesn't make any sense at all either.

As for your Lybushkin for Kylington and a 2nd, it's not about the value. Arizona just signed Lybushkin to an extension so he obviously is liked by the team, and plays a different role than Kylington does. Lybushkin is right handed and has more experience than Kylington does. Lybushkin plays a defensive style that fits what Arizona likes to play where Kylington doesn't. Kylington has also barely cracked the league, and he was on waivers this last season so if a team wanted him they coulda had him for free - he's not that valuable right now.

So again, the more you look at it, this doesn't make any sense for Arizona. They lose the better player (again, don't just look at PPG as the only stat to judge a player), the cheaper player, and the more experienced defenceman.

If you don't like discussion, then don't be on this site. Don't back away from it just because people show you that your idea doesn't work for the other team.

Have a good day.

It's two players with similar stats in the playoffs, if you can't see a simple comparison as nothing more than "bringing Toronto into the conversation" then it's extremely clear why you can't understand the rest.

Your points are all incredibly full of holes it's embarrassing. If you made a justifiable point then it would be worth a conversation but you tried to use the team around the two players to compare them when advanced stats show Monahan as a better player and they're used to isolate a player regardless of his surrounding cast. No one is merely using points per game, it's a very simple comparison if you just put a quarter ounce of effort in. Possession metrics in a down year for Monahan lean towards him, the last three years of production compared all lean towards Monahan. You trying to make Dvorak the best player in this deal is just a toddler throwing a tantrum cause you're wrong and need to feel right.

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_compare.php?players%5B%5D=4194&players%5B%5D=3870&period=2020-2021%3AR%3A99

Money wise Monahan can take up Kessel's cap hit in two years or walk away from the Coyotes like they're contracts are set up to do by 2022, they have 5 contracts that extend past next season, they're clearly not overly worried about long term retention. This is a very simple situation.

Anyone who spent more than 15 minutes watching the NHL this year knows that a player going on waivers doesn't mean anything close to what it meant in other years, another extraordinarily ​soft point.

Hahah back away from it, christ, no one is backing away, just tuning out delusional white noise.

As long as you FEEL right I'm happy for ya! Take your ball, go home, I promise no one will miss your commentary.

Lol. You're too arrogant to even continue this conversation. You wanna judge a player off only numbers, have fun with that. Forgetting again that analytics don't take into account coaching systems and player deployment. Calgary has been a higher offensive based team, Arizona has more a more defensive team. Obviously that's going to affect their numbers. Also forgetting that Dvorak missed quite a bit of time a few seasons ago due to injury. Analytics have a place in hockey, yes. But if you use them to solely judge a players value than you don't know hockey. It's also funny how you try to justify bringing in adavanced stats now, when all along the only stat you've mentioned to me was PPG. You want some advanced stats? Okay:

Let's start with player deployment!

Career zone starts:
Dvorak 49.5% offensive zone, 50.5% defensive zone (this last season it was 46.3% Ozone, and 53.7% Dzone)
Monahan: 56.1% offensive zone, 43.9% defensive zone (this last season it was (56.9% Ozone, and 43.1% Dzone)

shouldn't Monahan's production be higher since he's sheltered more and used for offensive zone purposes more? Kinda makes sense that Dvorak's are lower since he's used in a defensive role more.

Last 2 seasons of xGF and xGA (only using 2 seasons because 3 seasons ago Dvorak only played 20 games due to injury, not enough of a sample size to justify comparison)
Dvorak:
2020/21 - xGF of 11.0 and xGA of 20.1
2019/20 - xGF 43.8 and xGA of 36.5

Monahan:
2020/21 - xGF of 15.8 and xGA of 12.5
2019/20 - xGF of 46.9 and xGA of 45.1

So last season, Monahan was slightly better. But again, he was sheltered more and started in the offensive zone more so his production should be higher. But the season before (when Dvorak actually started in the offensive zone 54.6% of the time, Dvorak was closer in offence and miles better in defensive game impact. And again, analytics don't take into account a coaches system. Monahan played in a higher offensive system than Dvorak did during that time, so its expected that he puts up better numbers. So this whole narrative of Monahan being the better player is kinda squashed. Dvorak is a better 200ft player.

Imma leave it at this and not reply again:

Arizona declines. All day, everyday.