Forums/Armchair-GM

A New Hope

Created by: MauriceArthur15
Initial Creation Date: Jun 17, 2021
Published: Jun 17 at 7:43
Team: 2021-22 Toronto Maple Leafs
Team Explanation
Here's a new look Toronto team.

We lose Kerfoot to expansion.

We trade Holl and Engvall to Philly to help stabilize their defence and they take on Engvall for us. In return we get their 2nd and future 7th.

This one is 3 team trade with Winnipeg, Airzona and Toronto. Here's the breakdown:

Winnipeg: Morgan Rielly
Toronto: Copp, Fisher and Dvorak
Airzona: Abramov, Toronto 2022 1st and 2021 2nd

Airzona gets a solid NHL prospect, a 1st and 2nd to start their rebuild.
Toronto gets forward depth.
Winnipeg gets the defenceman that's desperately need. Winnipeg can afford to lose Copp with the amount of NHL ready forward prospects ( Vesilaninen, Perfetii) and add to weak defence. Morgan Rielly would round out that defensive core to be able to compete with Dallas, Colorado, Nashville and Minnesota who are all strong defensive teams. The pairing would be:

Rielly-Demelo
Morrisey-Pionk
Heinola-Poolman

Easily a far more respectable defence and Morgan Rielly can mentor Heinola (future number 1 dman).

Toronto trade Hutchinson for a 6th. Tampa gets a much needed back up for under this years league minimum.

Travis Dermott to Florida. Travis Dermott heads down south for a 4th. Florida were interested in Dermott last offseason and now gets him for under the compensation they would get for offer sheeting him. Dermott rounds out a strong Florida defence that now looks like:

Weegar-Ekblad
Nuitvara-Stralman
Dermott-Gudas

Toronto signs Saad, Getzlaf, and McCabe. They resign Rittich and Hutton as well.

LMK what y'all think down below.
Free Agent Signings
RESERVE LISTYEARSCAP HIT
Greenway, James2$800,000
RFAYEARSCAP HIT
Copp, Andrew5$3,500,000
Duszak, Joseph3$850,000
Malgin, Denis3$850,000
Petan, Nicolas3$850,000
Vehvilainen, Veini3$850,000
Woll, Joseph3$850,000
UFAYEARSCAP HIT
McCabe, Jake4$3,000,000
Saad, Brandon4$4,500,000
Bogosian, Zach1$1,250,000
Getzlaf, Ryan1$750,000
Hutton, Ben1$800,000
Rittich, David1$1,500,000
Trades
TOR
    Expansion Draft
    SEA
    1. Kerfoot, Alexander
    TOR
    1. 2021 2nd round pick (PHI)
    2. 2022 7th round pick (STL)
    PHI
    1. Holl, Justin
    2. Engvall, Pierre
    TOR
    1. Copp, Andrew [RFA Rights]
    2. 2022 2nd round pick (WPG)
    WPG
    1. Rielly, Morgan
    Additional Details:
    3 team trade with Airzona
    TOR
    1. Dvorak, Christian
    2. Fischer, Christian
    ARI
    1. Abramov, Mikhail
    2. 2022 1st round pick (TOR)
    3. 2021 2nd round pick (TOR)
    TOR
    1. 2022 6th round pick (TBL)
    TBL
    1. Hutchinson, Michael
    TOR
    1. 2022 4th round pick (FLA)
    FLA
    1. Dermott, Travis [RFA Rights]
    Retained Salary Transactions
    • Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)
    DRAFT YEARROUND 1ROUND 2ROUND 3ROUND 4ROUND 5ROUND 6ROUND 7
    2021
    PHI
    TOR
    TOR
    2022
    TOR
    WPG
    FLA
    TBL
    TOR
    STL
    2023
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    TOR
    ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES BONUSESCAP SPACE
    23$81,500,000$81,354,783$0$400,000$145,217

    Roster

    Left WingCenterRight Wing
    ARI
    Dvorak, Christian
    $4,450,000
    C, LW
    UFA - 4
    TOR
    Matthews, Auston
    $11,640,250
    C
    UFA - 3
    TOR
    Marner, Mitchell
    $10,903,000
    RW
    UFA - 4
    Saad, Brandon
    $4,500,000
    RW, LW
    UFA
    TOR
    Tavares, John
    $11,000,000
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    TOR
    Nylander, William
    $6,962,366
    RW, LW
    UFA - 3
    TOR
    Mikheyev, Ilya
    $1,645,000
    LW, RW
    UFA - 1
    Copp, Andrew
    $3,500,000
    C, LW
    RFA
    ARI
    Fischer, Christian
    $1,000,000
    RW, LW
    RFA - 1
    TOR
    Robertson, Nicholas
    $796,667
    LW
    RFA - 3
    Getzlaf, Ryan
    $750,000
    C
    UFA
    TOR
    Spezza, Jason
    $750,000
    C, RW
    UFA - 1
    Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
    TOR
    Sandin, Rasmus
    $894,167
    LD
    RFA - 1
    TOR
    Brodie, TJ
    $5,000,000
    RD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    TOR
    Campbell, Jack
    $1,650,000
    G
    UFA - 1
    TOR
    Muzzin, Jake
    $5,625,000
    LD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    TOR
    Liljegren, Timothy
    $863,333
    RD
    RFA - 1
    TOR
    Rittich, David
    $1,500,000
    G
    UFA
    McCabe, Jake
    $3,000,000
    LD
    UFA
    TOR
    Bogosian, Zach
    $1,250,000
    RD
    UFA
    ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
    TOR
    Semyonov, Kirill
    $825,000
    C
    UFA - 1
    TOR
    Hutton, Ben
    $800,000
    LD
    UFA
    TOR
    Vehvilainen, Veini
    $850,000
    G
    RFA

    Special Teams

    Power Play 1
    Nylander, W.
    Tavares, J.
    Matthews, A.
    Marner, M.
    Sandin, R.
    Power Play 2
    Dvorak, C.
    Getzlaf, R.
    Robertson, N.
    Spezza, J.
    Muzzin, J.
    Penalty Kill 1
    Copp, A.
    Marner, M.
    Muzzin, J.
    Brodie, T.
    Penalty Kill 2
    Dvorak, C.
    Saad, B.
    McCabe, J.
    Bogosian, Z.

    Embed Code

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    Jun 17 at 8:10
    #1
    Joined: Mar 2018
    Posts: 6,118
    Likes: 1,828
    Edited Jun 17 at 8:16
    To put this in the nice way, what you said about Winnipeg is just wrong. Reilly is not what we need. We need a big, puck moving d-man who defends well. Rielly fits one of those 3 things. Hence, not exactly what we need. And Morgan rielly doesn’t help us compete in the central. That’s true of the jest were in the Atlantic but you need at least 2-3 big d-men in the central to survive a full season. The jets have 1 in Stanley right now. A Reilly - demelo pairing would be eaten alive in the central for any extended period of time.

    The jets also need Copp. Unless he’s asking for a lot of money, he will be back. He’s our best defensive forward, is the guy we put in the top 6 in case of injury, and is scheifele’s roomate. Not to mention he’s a leader in the room. Not the type of guy we can afford to lose.

    Also, that’s not a 3 team trade. That’s 2 different trades. Sure they can happen at the same time, but there’s no peices going between all three teams.

    Realistically, the jets need one big top 4 rd or someone who can play the right side.
    JoMo-pionk
    Heinola-x
    Stanley/Samberg - demelo
    Windjammer and Mr_Canoehead liked this.
    Jun 17 at 8:34
    #2
    Joined: Jul 2020
    Posts: 4,006
    Likes: 1,446
    Winnipeg likely would have no interest in Rielly since he's a rental, an LD, is offense only and they can't afford his next cintract.
    arafay and Mr_Canoehead liked this.
    Jun 17 at 9:13
    #3
    Thread Starter
    TopDawgReese
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 802
    Likes: 183
    Quoting: arafay
    To put this in the nice way, what you said about Winnipeg is just wrong. Reilly is not what we need. We need a big, puck moving d-man who defends well. Rielly fits one of those 3 things. Hence, not exactly what we need. And Morgan rielly doesn’t help us compete in the central. That’s true of the jest were in the Atlantic but you need at least 2-3 big d-men in the central to survive a full season. The jets have 1 in Stanley right now. A Reilly - demelo pairing would be eaten alive in the central for any extended period of time.

    The jets also need Copp. Unless he’s asking for a lot of money, he will be back. He’s our best defensive forward, is the guy we put in the top 6 in case of injury, and is scheifele’s roomate. Not to mention he’s a leader in the room. Not the type of guy we can afford to lose.

    Also, that’s not a 3 team trade. That’s 2 different trades. Sure they can happen at the same time, but there’s no peices going between all three teams.

    Realistically, the jets need one big top 4 rd or someone who can play the right side.
    JoMo-pionk
    Heinola-x
    Stanley/Samberg - demelo


    Personally I do not know how much you watch Morgan Rielly, but he is defensively responsible when he needs to be. Case and point the playoffs. That whole series he was out on the ice MTL only scored twice. Also Morgan Rielly is big guy. He's 6'2 and 220lbs. The issue with the Jets is the inability to move the puck forward from defence. The 3 reason are:

    1. You don't have enough puck movement on the back end, and guys who can skate the puck out of trouble.

    2. Lack of defensive commitment from your forwards. Sorry Schiefele, Wheeler, Connor, Ehlers and Dubois weirdly, doesn't commit enough on the defensive side.

    3. Poor structure.

    Dylan Demelo looks like he will be eaten alive because of the poor structure. No offence there was a reason why the tides turned in the series with MTL. Trust a Rielly-Demelo pairing would do wonders. The reason you think Demelo would be eaten alive is no offence how poor Morrisey is at moving the puck and at transitioning. Demelo is a stay at home guy and needs to be paired with someone who can think offence and transition.

    With Copp I understand he's one of your best defensive forwards however your team committed to Ehlers, Wheeler, Schiefele, Connor, and Dubois. Currently you have 2 NHL ready forwards in Cole Perfetti and Kristain Vesilianen (sorry if I butchered that). It's not that your forwards are terrible defensively, its just that they aren't committed to playing in their own end .his was an issue with Toronto until this year where we saw Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Kerfoot and all the other players committed to playing defense. That tells me a coaching adjustment needs to be made. Whether its letting one of the assistant coaches go or something else, but it needs to change. Take it from me who watches every Leafs game. Sometimes a coach message gets stale and that's what is personally been shown to me.

    This last part I might get a lot of flak from Jets fans, but that leadership group needs to change. Whether its stripping Wheeler of the captaincy or trading one of the leaders away (in this case Copp) it simply needs to change. We have seen lots of young players asking for a trade, players not wanting to return and etc. It shows me the leaders aren't doing their job. The point that hammers that home was Schiefele press conference where he showed no remorse for his actions. I understand parting with Copp might be hard on the leadership group but at some point you need new voices and etc.
    MisstheWhalers liked this.
    Jun 17 at 9:21
    #4
    Thread Starter
    TopDawgReese
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 802
    Likes: 183
    Quoting: Windjammer
    Winnipeg likely would have no interest in Rielly since he's a rental, an LD, is offense only and they can't afford his next cintract.


    To your point if you commit to a defenceman long term, for example Dougie Hamilton on 7x8 ( I lowballed him), you are in a worse cap situation. Poink needs a raise this season, the next Vesilanen, Appleton and if you keep Copp you are in a worse situation. TBH the best option for you not to run into a long term cap problems would be to take on rental that can help Heinola out.
    Jun 17 at 9:35
    #5
    Joined: Jul 2020
    Posts: 4,006
    Likes: 1,446
    Quoting: MauriceArthur15
    To your point if you commit to a defenceman long term, for example Dougie Hamilton on 7x8 ( I lowballed him), you are in a worse cap situation. Poink needs a raise this season, the next Vesilanen, Appleton and if you keep Copp you are in a worse situation. TBH the best option for you not to run into a long term cap problems would be to take on rental that can help Heinola out.


    The chances of Hamilton signing in Winnipeg are right around zero. I don't mind the Jets spending assets on a rental if they can't find a long term option. I would just rather they spend those assets on a player that plays the way they need a defenseman to play, good defensively and can make a good first pass. Adding an all offense, no defense, defenseman doesn't help.
    Mr_Canoehead liked this.
    Jun 17 at 9:43
    #6
    Thread Starter
    TopDawgReese
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 802
    Likes: 183
    Quoting: Windjammer
    The chances of Hamilton signing in Winnipeg are right around zero. I don't mind the Jets spending assets on a rental if they can't find a long term option. I would just rather they spend those assets on a player that plays the way they need a defenseman to play, good defensively and can make a good first pass. Adding an all offense, no defense, defenseman doesn't help.


    Umm I don't think you. watch Rielly enough and you watch fans complain about Rielly on twitter. He's one of the best defencemans when it comes to making that first pass. He's ok defender but that's what Demelo is there for. Demelo is great defensively and you seen firsthand how much losing Demelo hurts your team. Also Rielly isn't all offence. He's a transition player. There are 4 types of defenceman. An offensive d-man is Barrie, who has a bomb from the point and its great passing and etc. Theres a defence dman which is Savard. Just committed to playing defence. There are 2 way dman like Hamilton who's good at both offensive and defence side. Then there puck moving dman which Rielly is. A puck moving dman is a dman with a great first pass and can skate his way out of troubled is the new day dman. Guys like Makar, Hughes, and Rielly. Not saying Rielly is on their level, but that's what Winnipeg needs. All the pieces are there on defence, but Rielly is that puck moving guy you need especially to help mentor Heinola who could be that.
    Jun 17 at 9:49
    #7
    Joined: Jul 2020
    Posts: 4,006
    Likes: 1,446
    Quoting: MauriceArthur15
    Umm I don't think you. watch Rielly enough and you watch fans complain about Rielly on twitter. He's one of the best defencemans when it comes to making that first pass. He's ok defender but that's what Demelo is there for. Demelo is great defensively and you seen firsthand how much losing Demelo hurts your team. Also Rielly isn't all offence. He's a transition player. There are 4 types of defenceman. An offensive d-man is Barrie, who has a bomb from the point and its great passing and etc. Theres a defence dman which is Savard. Just committed to playing defence. There are 2 way dman like Hamilton who's good at both offensive and defence side. Then there puck moving dman which Rielly is. A puck moving dman is a dman with a great first pass and can skate his way out of troubled is the new day dman. Guys like Makar, Hughes, and Rielly. Not saying Rielly is on their level, but that's what Winnipeg needs. All the pieces are there on defence, but Rielly is that puck moving guy you need especially to help mentor Heinola who could be that.


    I appreciate the sales job, but everyone knows enough about Rielly to know he's terrible defensively. Sorry, I know you're trying to solve your cap problems, but the Jets don't need any of the skills Rielly excels at enough to warrant spending the assets on him. The Jets have a better Rielly already in Pionk. Plus Pionk likes to hit which is a bonus in the central.
    Jun 17 at 9:53
    #8
    Thread Starter
    TopDawgReese
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 802
    Likes: 183
    Quoting: Windjammer
    I appreciate the sales job, but everyone knows enough about Rielly to know he's terrible defensively. Sorry, I know you're trying to solve your cap problems, but the Jets don't need any of the skills Rielly excels at enough to warrant spending the assets on him. The Jets have a better Rielly already in Pionk. Plus Pionk likes to hit which is a bonus in the central.


    Im not selling you on Rielly I'm just telling you what he is as a defenceman, but ok. It's clear you only watch the Jets and don't really look at other teams. If you really think Poink is better you are clearly being biased. Point isn't even your number 1 defenceman and your team still had poor analytics on the defensive side...

    I wonder why?
    Jun 17 at 9:58
    #9
    Joined: Jul 2020
    Posts: 4,006
    Likes: 1,446
    Quoting: MauriceArthur15
    Im not selling you on Rielly I'm just telling you what he is as a defenceman, but ok. It's clear you only watch the Jets and don't really look at other teams. If you really think Poink is better you are clearly being biased. Point isn't even your number 1 defenceman and your team still had poor analytics on the defensive side...

    I wonder why?


    I guess you could look at it this way. Why add the worst defensive defenseman from a team with one of the worst defenses in the league and expect it to improve your team's defensive game?
    Mr_Canoehead liked this.
    Jun 17 at 10:05
    #10
    Thread Starter
    TopDawgReese
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 802
    Likes: 183
    Quoting: Windjammer
    I guess you could look at it this way. Why add the worst defensive defenseman from a team with one of the worst defenses in the league and expect it to improve your team's defensive game?


    The leafs were top 10 in goals against with Freddy Anderson having a below .900 sv%, they were top 10 for xGA, literally every defensive metric we were top 10 or top 5 with that said defenceman as our number 1. Yet we have one of the worse defences...

    NVM about Rielly enjoy your Paul Maurice and Kevin Cheveldayoff doing nothing again to resolve this issue.
    Jun 17 at 10:42
    #11
    MisstheWhalers
    Joined: Jan 2019
    Posts: 14,150
    Likes: 6,218
    Quoting: MauriceArthur15
    Im not selling you on Rielly I'm just telling you what he is as a defenceman, but ok. It's clear you only watch the Jets and don't really look at other teams. If you really think Poink is better you are clearly being biased. Point isn't even your number 1 defenceman and your team still had poor analytics on the defensive side...

    I wonder why?


    Pionk is definitely the Jets #1 dman.
    Mr_Canoehead liked this.
    Jun 17 at 10:44
    #12
    Thread Starter
    TopDawgReese
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 802
    Likes: 183
    Quoting: MisstheWhalers
    Pionk is definitely the Jets #1 dman.


    Sorry my mistake. I taught it was Morrisey.
    Jun 17 at 10:53
    #13
    MisstheWhalers
    Joined: Jan 2019
    Posts: 14,150
    Likes: 6,218
    Quoting: MauriceArthur15
    Personally I do not know how much you watch Morgan Rielly, but he is defensively responsible when he needs to be. Case and point the playoffs. That whole series he was out on the ice MTL only scored twice. Also Morgan Rielly is big guy. He's 6'2 and 220lbs. The issue with the Jets is the inability to move the puck forward from defence. The 3 reason are:

    1. You don't have enough puck movement on the back end, and guys who can skate the puck out of trouble.

    2. Lack of defensive commitment from your forwards. Sorry Schiefele, Wheeler, Connor, Ehlers and Dubois weirdly, doesn't commit enough on the defensive side.

    3. Poor structure.

    Dylan Demelo looks like he will be eaten alive because of the poor structure. No offence there was a reason why the tides turned in the series with MTL. Trust a Rielly-Demelo pairing would do wonders. The reason you think Demelo would be eaten alive is no offence how poor Morrisey is at moving the puck and at transitioning. Demelo is a stay at home guy and needs to be paired with someone who can think offence and transition.

    With Copp I understand he's one of your best defensive forwards however your team committed to Ehlers, Wheeler, Schiefele, Connor, and Dubois. Currently you have 2 NHL ready forwards in Cole Perfetti and Kristain Vesilianen (sorry if I butchered that). It's not that your forwards are terrible defensively, its just that they aren't committed to playing in their own end .his was an issue with Toronto until this year where we saw Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Kerfoot and all the other players committed to playing defense. That tells me a coaching adjustment needs to be made. Whether its letting one of the assistant coaches go or something else, but it needs to change. Take it from me who watches every Leafs game. Sometimes a coach message gets stale and that's what is personally been shown to me.

    This last part I might get a lot of flak from Jets fans, but that leadership group needs to change. Whether its stripping Wheeler of the captaincy or trading one of the leaders away (in this case Copp) it simply needs to change. We have seen lots of young players asking for a trade, players not wanting to return and etc. It shows me the leaders aren't doing their job. The point that hammers that home was Schiefele press conference where he showed no remorse for his actions. I understand parting with Copp might be hard on the leadership group but at some point you need new voices and etc.


    Good comment, nailed it really, I've been calling for a Jets leadership change since the 18-19 season meltdown.

    Copp is actually kind of overrated defensively, like he's okay but he makes his fair share of questionable decisions in the D zone, he was completely checked out in the Montreal series, some leader he was then.

    Maurice D zone system is a disaster so it doesn't help matters, Ehlers is pretty committed in the D zone actually, Scheifele isn't unfortunately.

    Jets need a new coach but that isn't happening
    anytime soon unfortunately, ownership loves him for some reason.

    As for the trade, sure Rielly would help but then we lose other guys in the expansion draft or spend more assets to save them and Rielly walks so it's not really worth it in the long run, realistically Rielly doesn't waive for Winnipeg anyway.
    MauriceArthur15 liked this.
    Jun 17 at 11:24
    #14
    Thread Starter
    TopDawgReese
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 802
    Likes: 183
    Quoting: MisstheWhalers
    Good comment, nailed it really, I've been calling for a Jets leadership change since the 18-19 season meltdown.

    Copp is actually kind of overrated defensively, like he's okay but he makes his fair share of questionable decisions in the D zone, he was completely checked out in the Montreal series, some leader he was then.

    Maurice D zone system is a disaster so it doesn't help matters, Ehlers is pretty committed in the D zone actually, Scheifele isn't unfortunately.

    Jets need a new coach but that isn't happening
    anytime soon unfortunately, ownership loves him for some reason.

    As for the trade, sure Rielly would help but then we lose other guys in the expansion draft or spend more assets to save them and Rielly walks so it's not really worth it in the long run, realistically Rielly doesn't waive for Winnipeg anyway.


    The team checked out in that Montreal series and even heading up to the playoffs. Ownership and management needs to realize that sometimes a new voice is needed in the locker room.

    A real good example would be Pittsburgh in 2016. That team completely checked out on their coach and the second Mike Sullivan came in everything changed.

    Although I’m a Leafs fan I don’t want to see the Jets be in this situation as I seen it with our collapse in 2014, and then 2015. This counter attack offence and trap based defence doesn’t work anymore. All top team for eg. Carolina, Tampa, Colorado, Vegas, Minnesota and more are all based off puck possession, speed and skill. You guys have the skill and the speed but you need a coach that will focus on puck possession and defensive structure.

    Idk who that it’s but something needs to change in Winnipeg.
    MisstheWhalers liked this.
    Jun 18 at 2:54
    #15
    Joined: Mar 2018
    Posts: 6,118
    Likes: 1,828
    Edited Jun 18 at 3:10
    Quoting: MauriceArthur15
    Personally I do not know how much you watch Morgan Rielly, but he is defensively responsible when he needs to be. Case and point the playoffs. That whole series he was out on the ice MTL only scored twice. Also Morgan Rielly is big guy. He's 6'2 and 220lbs. The issue with the Jets is the inability to move the puck forward from defence. The 3 reason are:

    1. You don't have enough puck movement on the back end, and guys who can skate the puck out of trouble.

    2. Lack of defensive commitment from your forwards. Sorry Schiefele, Wheeler, Connor, Ehlers and Dubois weirdly, doesn't commit enough on the defensive side.

    3. Poor structure.

    Dylan Demelo looks like he will be eaten alive because of the poor structure. No offence there was a reason why the tides turned in the series with MTL. Trust a Rielly-Demelo pairing would do wonders. The reason you think Demelo would be eaten alive is no offence how poor Morrisey is at moving the puck and at transitioning. Demelo is a stay at home guy and needs to be paired with someone who can think offence and transition.

    With Copp I understand he's one of your best defensive forwards however your team committed to Ehlers, Wheeler, Schiefele, Connor, and Dubois. Currently you have 2 NHL ready forwards in Cole Perfetti and Kristain Vesilianen (sorry if I butchered that). It's not that your forwards are terrible defensively, its just that they aren't committed to playing in their own end .his was an issue with Toronto until this year where we saw Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Kerfoot and all the other players committed to playing defense. That tells me a coaching adjustment needs to be made. Whether its letting one of the assistant coaches go or something else, but it needs to change. Take it from me who watches every Leafs game. Sometimes a coach message gets stale and that's what is personally been shown to me.

    This last part I might get a lot of flak from Jets fans, but that leadership group needs to change. Whether its stripping Wheeler of the captaincy or trading one of the leaders away (in this case Copp) it simply needs to change. We have seen lots of young players asking for a trade, players not wanting to return and etc. It shows me the leaders aren't doing their job. The point that hammers that home was Schiefele press conference where he showed no remorse for his actions. I understand parting with Copp might be hard on the leadership group but at some point you need new voices and etc.


    Reilly is 6’1. If he was 6’2 I would consider it, but ideally the jets get someone over 6’2 and is physical. Reilly simply doesn’t fit that bill. As for defensive awareness, I agree Reilly is good in his own zone. But the jets don’t want good, they want really good. They don’t need another offence first d-man. Simple as that. Also, Reilly is left handed. We have too many of those coming up.

    I agree with you point one. Which is probably the main reason the jets couldn’t score against montreal and why the jets struggle against good and fast forechecks. The only good puckmobers on the back end are JoMo and pionk. The average ones are demelo and Stanley. Then the others are below (and the others spent most of the season in the top 4 frown ). However, for the reason that Reilly isn’t right handed, physical, big, or a great defensive guy, it makes no sense for the jets to get him, especially at this cost. And yeah, he’s not signing here lol.

    I agree with your point 2 in part. Wheeler played well in the playoffs and was our best defensive forward for a good 7 years. I don’t blame him if he’s not great at 35. However, when he’s on his game, wheeler is quite good everywhere on the ice. He’s just not the same dominant guy anymore. Connor...well this has been well documented. The guy has serious potential to be an elite player but he can’t creat much offense on his own and is terrible in the d-zone. Schiefele is good when he wants to be. He tries sometimes, sometimes he doesn’t. Ehelrs tries his best whenever he’s on the ice. And dubios did one thing right all season, defensive play. So I’m not sure what you saw there. But yes, I agree with the point that schiefele and connor need to commit more. The others, I either don’t blame em or disagree.

    3. I completely disagree with “poor structure”. The only reason Maurice’s structure doesn’t work is commitment. When he gets that, it works. We saw that against EDM and back in 2018. While I agree maurice needs to develop the commitment as that’s also a part of a coaches job but his structure is not the problem in my opinion. Though forcing ehlers to play dump and chase hockey for over 3 years with laine next to him made no sense. He fixed that now though.

    The Reilly-demelo pairing wouldn't get eaten alive in the central because they aren’t good enough, it’s cause of physicality. The central is a heavy heavy division. The central forwards would crush that pairing physically. Same reason why I don’t think a JoMo-demelo pairing will last a full season in the central. The central plays a much different game than the other divisions. I honestly think it’s the division with the best built teams (for playoffs) except they tire eachother out trying to get out of said division. The Atlantic is good too though with Boston and Tampa. But that’s a story for another day. “Morrissey poor at moving the puck”. You watched the same player we in Winnipeg have been watching right? Puckmoving is his game lol. That and stick defence. That’s why that Morrissey-demelo pairing works so well. It’s literally the same premise as a Reilly-demelo pairing.

    1. Perfetti may not be ready. 2. We have the cap space to commit to Copp too. With plenty of room to spare. He’s a big peice of the forward group and is a guy the jets will miss more than some top 6 forwards in my opinion. Unless he wants out, he’s not going anywhere. He’s too important to the jets success. I agree that part of the jets problems is commitment. But taking away arguably your most consistent and best defensive forward doesn’t exactly fix that lol. As for commitment, we’ve seen time and time again that the forwards can commit on this team (except for Connor..I honestly am starting to think that part of his game will never improve, but that’s not about commitment but rather ability). I think that Maurice got way more commitment out of his forwards this year than any other year so far. They played 5 man defence consistently for like half the year. That’s a sentence I never thought I would say about the jets, yet here we are. There’s only so much you can do with 2-3 decent d-men. I don’t blame maurice. I’m not a Maurice fan, but I just don’t think he’s in the wrong this time (again, never thought I would say it). He simply doesn’t have the talent available to him on the back end. No team with that backend should even be near the playoffs. Yet with hellebuyck and Maurice’s coaching, they made it to the second round. And yes, I do think Maurice’s coaching made a difference because we saw it on the ice. Hellebuyck didn’t steal every game the jets won and the forwards didn’t outscore the opposition every time either.

    As for the leadership change, I would give wheeler one more year. The jets room is very close right now and they have this understanding and willingness to fight for eachother right now. They have commitment really. That’s never happened in Winnipeg on such a large scale. So chevy needs to do something to fix up the d-core so we can really see where this team is at. So yes, I think a leadership change could be beneficial, but I would wait one more year.
    Jun 18 at 1:58
    #16
    Thread Starter
    TopDawgReese
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 802
    Likes: 183
    Quoting: arafay
    Reilly is 6’1. If he was 6’2 I would consider it, but ideally the jets get someone over 6’2 and is physical. Reilly simply doesn’t fit that bill. As for defensive awareness, I agree Reilly is good in his own zone. But the jets don’t want good, they want really good. They don’t need another offence first d-man. Simple as that. Also, Reilly is left handed. We have too many of those coming up.

    I agree with you point one. Which is probably the main reason the jets couldn’t score against montreal and why the jets struggle against good and fast forechecks. The only good puckmobers on the back end are JoMo and pionk. The average ones are demelo and Stanley. Then the others are below (and the others spent most of the season in the top 4 frown ). However, for the reason that Reilly isn’t right handed, physical, big, or a great defensive guy, it makes no sense for the jets to get him, especially at this cost. And yeah, he’s not signing here lol.

    I agree with your point 2 in part. Wheeler played well in the playoffs and was our best defensive forward for a good 7 years. I don’t blame him if he’s not great at 35. However, when he’s on his game, wheeler is quite good everywhere on the ice. He’s just not the same dominant guy anymore. Connor...well this has been well documented. The guy has serious potential to be an elite player but he can’t creat much offense on his own and is terrible in the d-zone. Schiefele is good when he wants to be. He tries sometimes, sometimes he doesn’t. Ehelrs tries his best whenever he’s on the ice. And dubios did one thing right all season, defensive play. So I’m not sure what you saw there. But yes, I agree with the point that schiefele and connor need to commit more. The others, I either don’t blame em or disagree.

    3. I completely disagree with “poor structure”. The only reason Maurice’s structure doesn’t work is commitment. When he gets that, it works. We saw that against EDM and back in 2018. While I agree maurice needs to develop the commitment as that’s also a part of a coaches job but his structure is not the problem in my opinion. Though forcing ehlers to play dump and chase hockey for over 3 years with laine next to him made no sense. He fixed that now though.

    The Reilly-demelo pairing wouldn't get eaten alive in the central because they aren’t good enough, it’s cause of physicality. The central is a heavy heavy division. The central forwards would crush that pairing physically. Same reason why I don’t think a JoMo-demelo pairing will last a full season in the central. The central plays a much different game than the other divisions. I honestly think it’s the division with the best built teams (for playoffs) except they tire eachother out trying to get out of said division. The Atlantic is good too though with Boston and Tampa. But that’s a story for another day. “Morrissey poor at moving the puck”. You watched the same player we in Winnipeg have been watching right? Puckmoving is his game lol. That and stick defence. That’s why that Morrissey-demelo pairing works so well. It’s literally the same premise as a Reilly-demelo pairing.

    1. Perfetti may not be ready. 2. We have the cap space to commit to Copp too. With plenty of room to spare. He’s a big peice of the forward group and is a guy the jets will miss more than some top 6 forwards in my opinion. Unless he wants out, he’s not going anywhere. He’s too important to the jets success. I agree that part of the jets problems is commitment. But taking away arguably your most consistent and best defensive forward doesn’t exactly fix that lol. As for commitment, we’ve seen time and time again that the forwards can commit on this team (except for Connor..I honestly am starting to think that part of his game will never improve, but that’s not about commitment but rather ability). I think that Maurice got way more commitment out of his forwards this year than any other year so far. They played 5 man defence consistently for like half the year. That’s a sentence I never thought I would say about the jets, yet here we are. There’s only so much you can do with 2-3 decent d-men. I don’t blame maurice. I’m not a Maurice fan, but I just don’t think he’s in the wrong this time (again, never thought I would say it). He simply doesn’t have the talent available to him on the back end. No team with that backend should even be near the playoffs. Yet with hellebuyck and Maurice’s coaching, they made it to the second round. And yes, I do think Maurice’s coaching made a difference because we saw it on the ice. Hellebuyck didn’t steal every game the jets won and the forwards didn’t outscore the opposition every time either.

    As for the leadership change, I would give wheeler one more year. The jets room is very close right now and they have this understanding and willingness to fight for eachother right now. They have commitment really. That’s never happened in Winnipeg on such a large scale. So chevy needs to do something to fix up the d-core so we can really see where this team is at. So yes, I think a leadership change could be beneficial, but I would wait one more year.


    Bud 1 inch really doesn’t make a difference with height…

    Secondly Jets defensive structure is terrible. Now look at Colorado, and Tampa. They collapse into the slot and cover the passing lanes. They do that to force you to take a poor shot and then they hop on the rebound and attack. The Jets don’t do that. None of you left forwards in your top 6 is defensively responsible. That tells me it’s poor coaching.

    If you don’t agree with what I said that’s fine. However I’ve seen this story and it’s doesn’t end well. It’s ends with everyone getting fired and traded.
    Jun 18 at 2:09
    #17
    Joined: Mar 2018
    Posts: 6,118
    Likes: 1,828
    Edited Jun 18 at 2:15
    Quoting: MauriceArthur15
    Bud 1 inch really doesn’t make a difference with height…

    Secondly Jets defensive structure is terrible. Now look at Colorado, and Tampa. They collapse into the slot and cover the passing lanes. They do that to force you to take a poor shot and then they hop on the rebound and attack. The Jets don’t do that. None of you left forwards in your top 6 is defensively responsible. That tells me it’s poor coaching.

    If you don’t agree with what I said that’s fine. However I’ve seen this story and it’s doesn’t end well. It’s ends with everyone getting fired and traded.


    The point isn’t the one inch. The idea is that they should be physical and over 6”2 at least. If you say 1 inch doesn’t matter then at what point does that one inch start to matter? At 6”1? 6”0? 5”11? The jets need a big physical d-man. Reilly isn’t that. Simple.

    First of all, maurcie’s structure is based on keeping shots to the outside, no matter how many shots hellebuyck faces, as long as they aren’t of quality. That depends on 3 players being present in the slot at all times. The jets did that very well when they had good defensemen. Now they dont have the personnel to execute any kind of defensive structure, whether it’s collapsing or not. As for the whole idea of collapsing into the slot, that’s not the only type of d-zone structure that exists. One of the best defensive teams in Carolina doesn’t collapse. Neither does Arizona. The jest d-zone isn’t focused on collapsing but rather letting hellebuyck see the puck. They did that very well against Edmonton. They didn’t do it against montreal. As for none of the forwards being defensively responsible, that’s just false. Sure schiefele and Connor aren’t. But the rest sure are. Dubios is our best defensive forward in the top 6. Wheeler used to be but now he’s just decent (I give him some slack cause he’s 35 now). Ehlers competes wherever he’s on the ice but his game relies heavily on good puck moving defensemen. Schiefele needs to commit more to the defensive zone I agree. He tends to cheat waaay too much. Not enough backchecking, leaving the zone early, etc. But that’s the only forward doing that. As for Connor, he Just needs to work on being more of a play driver than a passenger. The rest of the game will come with that for him.

    As for firing coaches and players traded, maybe. But that will only happen if this team collapses. This year was an achievement for the jets really. With that d-core, they had no business making it to round 2. Yet they did. Now chevy needs to fix the d-core. If he doesn’t, we’ll chevy should be the first one to go, not Maurice or the players. The GM’s job is to fill holes, he’s not doing that.

    In my mind, the coach and players have a much longer leash than chevy. He built a complete team in 1 out of the 11 years he’s been GM. That year they went to the WCF. The jets either haven’t had defense or a 2c the other years. It’s chevy’s fault this incomplete team tries to go up against complete ones. Not Maurice or the players. We already saw what happens when this coaching staff and the leadership here get what they need. Maurice and the players overachieved this year. It’s time for chevy to back them up.
    Windjammer liked this.
    Jun 18 at 3:00
    #18
    Thread Starter
    TopDawgReese
    Joined: Aug 2020
    Posts: 802
    Likes: 183
    Quoting: arafay
    The point isn’t the one inch. The idea is that they should be physical and over 6”2 at least. If you say 1 inch doesn’t matter then at what point does that one inch start to matter? At 6”1? 6”0? 5”11? The jets need a big physical d-man. Reilly isn’t that. Simple.

    First of all, maurcie’s structure is based on keeping shots to the outside, no matter how many shots hellebuyck faces, as long as they aren’t of quality. That depends on 3 players being present in the slot at all times. The jets did that very well when they had good defensemen. Now they dont have the personnel to execute any kind of defensive structure, whether it’s collapsing or not. As for the whole idea of collapsing into the slot, that’s not the only type of d-zone structure that exists. One of the best defensive teams in Carolina doesn’t collapse. Neither does Arizona. The jest d-zone isn’t focused on collapsing but rather letting hellebuyck see the puck. They did that very well against Edmonton. They didn’t do it against montreal. As for none of the forwards being defensively responsible, that’s just false. Sure schiefele and Connor aren’t. But the rest sure are. Dubios is our best defensive forward in the top 6. Wheeler used to be but now he’s just decent (I give him some slack cause he’s 35 now). Ehlers competes wherever he’s on the ice but his game relies heavily on good puck moving defensemen. Schiefele needs to commit more to the defensive zone I agree. He tends to cheat waaay too much. Not enough backchecking, leaving the zone early, etc. But that’s the only forward doing that. As for Connor, he Just needs to work on being more of a play driver than a passenger. The rest of the game will come with that for him.

    As for firing coaches and players traded, maybe. But that will only happen if this team collapses. This year was an achievement for the jets really. With that d-core, they had no business making it to round 2. Yet they did. Now chevy needs to fix the d-core. If he doesn’t, we’ll chevy should be the first one to go, not Maurice or the players. The GM’s job is to fill holes, he’s not doing that.

    In my mind, the coach and players have a much longer leash than chevy. He built a complete team in 1 out of the 11 years he’s been GM. That year they went to the WCF. The jets either haven’t had defense or a 2c the other years. It’s chevy’s fault this incomplete team tries to go up against complete ones. Not Maurice or the players. We already saw what happens when this coaching staff and the leadership here get what they need. Maurice and the players overachieved this year. It’s time for chevy to back them up.


    Yes because physical defenceman are far more valuable then puck movement…

    And no Hellybuck faced the most quality chances out every goalie in the 1st round, and the regular season. He has the highest xGA out of every playoff team, yet he still kept the Jets in it. The Jets structure is terrible and the coach is to blame. So go ahead and chalk it up to Chevy not backing them up. When in reality everyone knows the reasoning. The reasoning is the forwards don’t back check and who does that fall on. The answer is Paul Maurice. Not the players. He puts the system out there he wants to play. If he doesn’t want them to play like that then bench him and have him watching from the press box. It evident Paul Maurice let’s his players do what he wants and is consistently out coached. The literal year after Paul Maurice left the Hurricanes for the 1st time they won the Stanley Cup.

    Not going to bother responding to you about structure or physicality. If you want to build your team like the Islanders in here you will lose to the Islanders on the ice.
    Jun 19 at 12:24
    #19
    Joined: Mar 2018
    Posts: 6,118
    Likes: 1,828
    Quoting: MauriceArthur15
    Yes because physical defenceman are far more valuable then puck movement…

    And no Hellybuck faced the most quality chances out every goalie in the 1st round, and the regular season. He has the highest xGA out of every playoff team, yet he still kept the Jets in it. The Jets structure is terrible and the coach is to blame. So go ahead and chalk it up to Chevy not backing them up. When in reality everyone knows the reasoning. The reasoning is the forwards don’t back check and who does that fall on. The answer is Paul Maurice. Not the players. He puts the system out there he wants to play. If he doesn’t want them to play like that then bench him and have him watching from the press box. It evident Paul Maurice let’s his players do what he wants and is consistently out coached. The literal year after Paul Maurice left the Hurricanes for the 1st time they won the Stanley Cup.

    Not going to bother responding to you about structure or physicality. If you want to build your team like the Islanders in here you will lose to the Islanders on the ice.


    I’m not saying that puck moving d-men are less valuable than physical one. I’m saying the jets need a big physical d-man. I don’t understand what’s so difficult to understand there. The jets have supreme puck movers in heinola, chisholm, gawanke, and Samberg all coming up soon. They don’t have any big, shutdown guys coming up other than Samberg (who plays the left side and we need right).

    I’m not saying the jets d-structure was good lol. I’m saying that during the second half of the season, the jets started executing it well, which allowed hellebuyck to relax a bit. Hellebuyck didn’t have to steal every game in the second half. I disagree that the problem is structure. This same structure is proven to work. I lay the blame on the jest d-personnel tbh. They simply aren’t good enough. Forbort and poolman are barely nhl regulars, they do not belong in any top 4s. As for the 05-06 canes winning, good job canes. It completely ignores the fact though that Maurice took the canes to the cup finals 3 years before that and was rehired by the canes as coach 3 years later. It’s simply too early to say “Maurice’s system doesn’t work”. The jets have literally only followed it twice: in the run to the WCF and this year against the oilers when they suddenly were playing high end defensively. Tbh, I agreed with you before I that series but that series just proved that the problem wasn’t Maurice or his system. It was the jets lack of good defensemen. Most teams had them missing the playoffs cause of that defence. Yet they made it to the second round.

    Yes, Maurice definitely needs to get more buy in into his system from the players, but the system itself isn’t the problem. I do agree though that if Maurice can’t get this buy in, he needs to go. But again, the problem isn’t the structure. This structure has proven to work when followed.

    The islanders have the best defensive coach in the league, you aren’t beating him at his own game.

    I’m by no means saying that Maurice is all good and roses. For sure if I was gm, he would be gone by now. However, after this season the jets need to give him at least next year and chevy needs to get him a top 4 guy or 2. I still think though that if chevy doesn’t get a top 4 d this season, he and Maurice should be gone. Not because maurice is the problem, but because if we are changing front office staff, might as well do a sweep to send the message that no one is safe
     
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