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Unrestricted Free Agent discussion

Should all UFAs hit the open market even if there are talks of resigning them?
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Apr. 17, 2017 at 4:38 p.m.
#26
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This is a rough start to outlining/developing a system that will automagically break ties. Bear with me as there will need to be adjustments and it might get a little technical, but if I can figure out something that we can agree is somewhat logical in application (disregarding emotions and plausibility), and balanced enough that everyone can work within this system, then we can test it out and see practical it is for our purposes.

Home team makes an offer (hidden)
GMs get to make 1 offer (hidden)
If no GMs beat the home team's offer, player is signed
If a GM beats the home team's offer, the home team may match that offer and keep the player

Tiebreakers:
- Home team always wins a tie
- Player age/status:

First time UFA, regardless of age:
Dollars and Term carry equal weight.
Ties are decided via bidding war.
Minimum of 250k increments until all but 1 GM walks away.
That GM is the winner.

28-33 and at least 2nd time UFA
Dollars 40% and Term 60%.
Ties are decided by standings. (Lower ranked teams will have to pay a premium)

34-38 and at least 2nd time UFA
Dollars 30% and Term 70%.
Ties are decided by standings and whether a player has won a cup.
(Players that have not won a cup are more likely to sign with a team higher in the standings)

38+
Dollars 70% and Term 30%
Players that have won a cup are more likely to re-sign with their current team, regardless of standings
They are more likely to take higher AAV over term

Formulas:

First time UFA: (Dollar Value * 1) * (Term * 1) = Total Value of Contract
28-33: (Dollar Value * 1.4) * (Term * 1.6) * (C - S/100) = Total Value of Contract
34-38: (Dollar Value * 1.3) * (Term * 1.7) * (C - S/100) = Total Value of Contract
38+: (Dollar Value * 1.7) * (Term * 1.3) * (C - S/100) * H = Total Value of Contract

C = 1 for players who have won a cup and .5 for players who have not.
S = Place in standings (1-31).
H = 1.1 for the Home team and 1.0 for all other teams.

NOTE: I'm just sketching this out roughly, I need to test and adjust the calculations, so if they are wrong somehow wait for a bit. (I'm doing this quickly in between other things Sticking Out Tongue)

Another idea is to assign an exchange rate to teams based on standings order, so the dollars of lower teams are worth slightly less than the higher teams.
Lower teams would have to pay slightly more, but it may be enough to offset most tie scenarios. I'll think on that one a little more.

I'll go over this in a bit and see how it might work out and make changes where necessary.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 4:50 p.m.
#27
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Quoting: ricochetii
This is a rough start to outlining/developing a system that will automagically break ties. Bear with me as there will need to be adjustments and it might get a little technical, but if I can figure out something that we can agree is somewhat logical in application (disregarding emotions and plausibility), and balanced enough that everyone can work within this system, then we can test it out and see practical it is for our purposes.

Home team makes an offer (hidden)
GMs get to make 1 offer (hidden)
If no GMs beat the home team's offer, player is signed
If a GM beats the home team's offer, the home team may match that offer and keep the player

Tiebreakers:
- Home team always wins a tie
- Player age/status:

First time UFA, regardless of age:
Dollars and Term carry equal weight.
Ties are decided via bidding war.
Minimum of 250k increments until all but 1 GM walks away.
That GM is the winner.

28-33 and at least 2nd time UFA
Dollars 40% and Term 60%.
Ties are decided by standings. (Lower ranked teams will have to pay a premium)

34-38 and at least 2nd time UFA
Dollars 30% and Term 70%.
Ties are decided by standings and whether a player has won a cup.
(Players that have not won a cup are more likely to sign with a team higher in the standings)

38+
Dollars 70% and Term 30%
Players that have won a cup are more likely to re-sign with their current team, regardless of standings
They are more likely to take higher AAV over term

Formulas:

First time UFA: (Dollar Value * 1) * (Term * 1) = Total Value of Contract
28-33: (Dollar Value * 1.4) * (Term * 1.6) * (C - S/100) = Total Value of Contract
34-38: (Dollar Value * 1.3) * (Term * 1.7) * (C - S/100) = Total Value of Contract
38+: (Dollar Value * 1.7) * (Term * 1.3) * (C - S/100) * H = Total Value of Contract

C = 1 for players who have won a cup and .5 for players who have not.
S = Place in standings (1-31).
H = 1.1 for the Home team and 1.0 for all other teams.

NOTE: I'm just sketching this out roughly, I need to test and adjust the calculations, so if they are wrong somehow wait for a bit. (I'm doing this quickly in between other things Sticking Out Tongue)

Another idea is to assign an exchange rate to teams based on standings order, so the dollars of lower teams are worth slightly less than the higher teams.
Lower teams would have to pay slightly more, but it may be enough to offset most tie scenarios. I'll think on that one a little more.

I'll go over this in a bit and see how it might work out and make changes where necessary.


Way too complicated. This needs to be as simple as possible for those that struggle with complicated concepts.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 4:57 p.m.
#28
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Quoting: DirtyDangles


Way too complicated. This needs to be as simple as possible for those that struggle with complicated concepts.


Haha, I thought so too, but I also thought it would be very uncomplicated if all of this was going on in the background and people only had to deal with an interface.
Pick a player, punch in the dollars and term, and see the actual contract value vs. your bid before you submit it.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 4:58 p.m.
#29
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Oops. double post.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 5:13 p.m.
#30
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
Well it is impossible to do it exactly like real life since there is no player to think for himself. So I think the way I laid it out works well. Sure, he might have to pay a ton for Tavares but in reality, Tavares is worth a ton so either you pay up or let him walk. Real GMs have to make those decisions all the time and build their team accordingly.


Very true. like i said though its before July 1st that is where teams usually get a player signed last minute for an expensive but reasonable deal. Free agency is where things get a little crazy.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 5:15 p.m.
#31
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
Quoting: F50marco
Hi guys, just to clarify here once free agency has come meaning July 1st is not so much the problem as it will basically highest bid wins. Its more what happens right before UFA starts. Example Tavares next year. What if in our game he's automatically sent to free agency but he resigns just before free agency begins in real life. something along those lines....


Well, nobody should be trading their pending UFAs anyways. As for Tavares, people need to act like he is going to free agency and not that he will re-sign. Therefore, if you trade a ton to get him and he doesn't end up r-signing well that's your own fault.


Yep exactly. I have Vrbata, and Doan waiting.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 5:15 p.m.
#32
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
Quoting: ricochetii
This is a rough start to outlining/developing a system that will automagically break ties. Bear with me as there will need to be adjustments and it might get a little technical, but if I can figure out something that we can agree is somewhat logical in application (disregarding emotions and plausibility), and balanced enough that everyone can work within this system, then we can test it out and see practical it is for our purposes.

Home team makes an offer (hidden)
GMs get to make 1 offer (hidden)
If no GMs beat the home team's offer, player is signed
If a GM beats the home team's offer, the home team may match that offer and keep the player

Tiebreakers:
- Home team always wins a tie
- Player age/status:

First time UFA, regardless of age:
Dollars and Term carry equal weight.
Ties are decided via bidding war.
Minimum of 250k increments until all but 1 GM walks away.
That GM is the winner.

28-33 and at least 2nd time UFA
Dollars 40% and Term 60%.
Ties are decided by standings. (Lower ranked teams will have to pay a premium)

34-38 and at least 2nd time UFA
Dollars 30% and Term 70%.
Ties are decided by standings and whether a player has won a cup.
(Players that have not won a cup are more likely to sign with a team higher in the standings)

38+
Dollars 70% and Term 30%
Players that have won a cup are more likely to re-sign with their current team, regardless of standings
They are more likely to take higher AAV over term

Formulas:

First time UFA: (Dollar Value * 1) * (Term * 1) = Total Value of Contract
28-33: (Dollar Value * 1.4) * (Term * 1.6) * (C - S/100) = Total Value of Contract
34-38: (Dollar Value * 1.3) * (Term * 1.7) * (C - S/100) = Total Value of Contract
38+: (Dollar Value * 1.7) * (Term * 1.3) * (C - S/100) * H = Total Value of Contract

C = 1 for players who have won a cup and .5 for players who have not.
S = Place in standings (1-31).
H = 1.1 for the Home team and 1.0 for all other teams.

NOTE: I'm just sketching this out roughly, I need to test and adjust the calculations, so if they are wrong somehow wait for a bit. (I'm doing this quickly in between other things Sticking Out Tongue)

Another idea is to assign an exchange rate to teams based on standings order, so the dollars of lower teams are worth slightly less than the higher teams.
Lower teams would have to pay slightly more, but it may be enough to offset most tie scenarios. I'll think on that one a little more.

I'll go over this in a bit and see how it might work out and make changes where necessary.


Way too complicated. This needs to be as simple as possible for those that struggle with complicated concepts.


Agreed but the template is a really good start rico. but yeah in needs to be a bit easier. A couple things can be consolidated as they have little impact.
Apr. 17, 2017 at 11:33 p.m.
#33
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So I think most of us has decided that the best way to do UFAs is to send every UFA to free agency no matter what. Each team will create their own Form/Spreadsheet (talk to ricochetii on how to do so) where others will bid on that teams UFAs. The team who previously owned the rights gets last chance to beat the highest bidder even if only by 100k per year. Highest bidder is determined by total contract value...if there is a tie, the tying GMs will get a one shot bid-off for the player. Winning bid gets the UFA.
Apr. 18, 2017 at 9:44 a.m.
#34
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
So I think most of us has decided that the best way to do UFAs is to send every UFA to free agency no matter what. Each team will create their own Form/Spreadsheet (talk to ricochetii on how to do so) where others will bid on that teams UFAs. The team who previously owned the rights gets last chance to beat the highest bidder even if only by 100k per year. Highest bidder is determined by total contract value...if there is a tie, the tying GMs will get a one shot bid-off for the player. Winning bid gets the UFA.


I'll see if I can outline this for everyone in a bit, after I consider all of the possibilities involved.
Apr. 18, 2017 at 11:39 a.m.
#35
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Quoting: ricochetii
Quoting: DirtyDangles
So I think most of us has decided that the best way to do UFAs is to send every UFA to free agency no matter what. Each team will create their own Form/Spreadsheet (talk to ricochetii on how to do so) where others will bid on that teams UFAs. The team who previously owned the rights gets last chance to beat the highest bidder even if only by 100k per year. Highest bidder is determined by total contract value...if there is a tie, the tying GMs will get a one shot bid-off for the player. Winning bid gets the UFA.


I'll see if I can outline this for everyone in a bit, after I consider all of the possibilities involved.


Yeah I think that's probably the best way to do this. Although still not convinced total contract value is the way to go. but I don't see an alternative so....
Apr. 18, 2017 at 12:32 p.m.
#36
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Quoting: F50marco
Quoting: ricochetii


I'll see if I can outline this for everyone in a bit, after I consider all of the possibilities involved.


Yeah I think that's probably the best way to do this. Although still not convinced total contract value is the way to go. but I don't see an alternative so....


I forgot about that part. That's what lead me down the more complicated path in the first place. Contract term and how to take it into account for the total value of a contract.
I'll look over my original idea first and see if I can simplify it or come up with an alternate solution.
Apr. 18, 2017 at 12:41 p.m.
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You know what would be a great idea? If we ran a mock july 1st. whoever participates, does and we see how well it turns out. We could hash out any irregularities we may find and implement correction ahead of the actual thing. It would only take 1 night with 5-10 GM's submitting a list of their offers and such.
Apr. 18, 2017 at 12:44 p.m.
#38
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Quoting: F50marco
You know what would be a great idea? If we ran a mock july 1st. whoever participates, does and we see how well it turns out. We could hash out any irregularities we may find and implement correction ahead of the actual thing. It would only take 1 night with 5-10 GM's submitting a list of their offers and such.


Honestly I think that's the best way. Set two dates. July 1 and 2 for example. Whoever shows up, gets to bid. If not, then you missed out on UFA's.
Apr. 18, 2017 at 12:51 p.m.
#39
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Edited Apr. 18, 2017 at 1:04 p.m.
Quoting: Mr_cap


Honestly I think that's the best way. Set two dates. July 1 and 2 for example. Whoever shows up, gets to bid. If not, then you missed out on UFA's.


Well i meant as a mock only before the free agency opens. just to see if any issues come up that we don't foresee. That way we can fix any kinks beforehand and NOT have a technicality determine someone getting a player over another GM who offered essentially the same thing.

Honestly I think it might be worth doing a mock for the expansion draft too for that matter.
Apr. 18, 2017 at 12:57 p.m.
#40
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Quoting: F50marco
Quoting: Mr_cap


Honestly I think that's the best way. Set two dates. July 1 and 2 for example. Whoever shows up, gets to bid. If not, then you missed out on UFA's.


Well i meant as a mock only before the free agency opens. just to see if any issues come up that we don't foresee. That way we can fix any kinks beforehand and have a technicality determine someone getting a player over another GM who offered essentially the same thing.

Honestly I think it might be worth doing a mock for the expansion draft too for that matter.


Oh true.. that too
Apr. 18, 2017 at 1:48 p.m.
#41
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Revised Method.

Assuming we can agree with my reasoning for why players in certain age groups as outlined above would assign more value to certain terms ...

1. We first assign a value to a bid based on that reasoning. This gives us a Total Value (V).

First time UFA: (Dollar Value * 1) * (Term * 1) = Total Value of Contract
28-33: (Dollar Value * 1.4) * (Term * 1.6) = Total Value of Contract
34-38: (Dollar Value * 1.3) * (Term * 1.7) = Total Value of Contract
38+: (Dollar Value * 1.7) * (Term * 1.3) = Total Value of Contract

2. The home team then multiplies the value of their bid by .05 for owning the rights to that player. Home (H). This automatically breaks ties in favor of the home team.

V = V * H

3. We set an average contract length for each sub group of players. Contract years above or below that range have a cumulative negative impact on the dollar amount. (X).

X = difference in years * .1

So the final "adjusted value" of each bid (A).

A = V * H * X
-----

Before people panic about the complexity, the calculations would all be automated and you'll be able to acquire a preview of what your bid will look like before you submit it.
You might need to give a little extra thought to your bids, but that should be a good thing. Our goal should be to have contracts that make sense. If we don't account for some of these things, we'll end up with all 8 year contracts and extra back and forth to get the highest dollar value. This would hopefully be a way we can mock the signing decisions of players, while still giving everyone equal opportunity at signing them.

While I like the simplicity of the "one shot" idea, it doesn't address everything we need.

Disclaimer: I'll have to set something up for testing to make sure this is a functional system. I just wanted to get it all written down first and open it up for discussion. The constants I outlined may need some fine tuning at the very least. Once I produce something I can use to demonstrate, I'll pop back in and get others to give it a look.
Apr. 18, 2017 at 2:08 p.m.
#42
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Quoting: ricochetii
Revised Method.

Assuming we can agree with my reasoning for why players in certain age groups as outlined above would assign more value to certain terms ...

1. We first assign a value to a bid based on that reasoning. This gives us a Total Value (V).

First time UFA: (Dollar Value * 1) * (Term * 1) = Total Value of Contract
28-33: (Dollar Value * 1.4) * (Term * 1.6) = Total Value of Contract
34-38: (Dollar Value * 1.3) * (Term * 1.7) = Total Value of Contract
38+: (Dollar Value * 1.7) * (Term * 1.3) = Total Value of Contract

2. The home team then multiplies the value of their bid by .05 for owning the rights to that player. Home (H). This automatically breaks ties in favor of the home team.

V = V * H

3. We set an average contract length for each sub group of players. Contract years above or below that range have a cumulative negative impact on the dollar amount. (X).

X = difference in years * .1

So the final "adjusted value" of each bid (A).

A = V * H * X
-----

Before people panic about the complexity, the calculations would all be automated and you'll be able to acquire a preview of what your bid will look like before you submit it.
You might need to give a little extra thought to your bids, but that should be a good thing. Our goal should be to have contracts that make sense. If we don't account for some of these things, we'll end up with all 8 year contracts and extra back and forth to get the highest dollar value. This would hopefully be a way we can mock the signing decisions of players, while still giving everyone equal opportunity at signing them.

While I like the simplicity of the "one shot" idea, it doesn't address everything we need.

Disclaimer: I'll have to set something up for testing to make sure this is a functional system. I just wanted to get it all written down first and open it up for discussion. The constants I outlined may need some fine tuning at the very least. Once I produce something I can use to demonstrate, I'll pop back in and get others to give it a look.


Hey rico, looks good but I'll pretend to be the rich VP who got to where he is without knowing a thing about nothing, give me some bright pictures and easy examples to help hammer the home the point.

Ok go, i got a board meeting in 5 minutes. Lol laugh
Apr. 19, 2017 at 7:29 a.m.
#43
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Okay, I have a start on something, but I need at least one person's email to give them access to make a few bids so I can do the next step and ensure permissions work properly.

Volunteer?

I have it set so anyone can view currently, but you won't see much until I'm able to proceed.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RPaaRdn-VDleqACP4xGl-lRLlm4_5R6nKdB74ltxgaE/edit?usp=sharing
Apr. 19, 2017 at 6:19 p.m.
#44
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Edited Apr. 20, 2017 at 12:26 a.m.
Here is a basic sample: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RPaaRdn-VDleqACP4xGl-lRLlm4_5R6nKdB74ltxgaE/edit?usp=sharing

I believe I have it set so anyone can change the values for salary and years under Colorado and the Bidding Team only.
This is just so people can see a basic functioning version.
All it does so far is take the two amounts, get a product of the values, and compare them to determine the highest total $ amount.
It then shows the winning team and the new contract for that player.

Feel free to pop in and enter some numbers so you can see it, and report any problems.
The final version would have a separate column for each team, and only the GM for that team would have permission to enter values into that column.
Aesthetics and formatting ($ signs, commas, team color, locked scrolling, etc. can be added later).

UPDATE: You can bid on anyone now. (Still no constraints or formatting)
Apr. 20, 2017 at 3:34 p.m.
#45
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Bump.

Do I have to put this in a controversial poll thread to get any feedback? Sticking Out Tongue
Apr. 21, 2017 at 2:16 p.m.
#46
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Small update. Added all teams. Teams you can play around with are Anaheim and Arizona now.
I have to work out the formulas to include the rest of the teams next.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RPaaRdn-VDleqACP4xGl-lRLlm4_5R6nKdB74ltxgaE/edit?usp=sharing
Apr. 21, 2017 at 6:09 p.m.
#47
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Quoting: ricochetii
Small update. Added all teams. Teams you can play around with are Anaheim and Arizona now.
I have to work out the formulas to include the rest of the teams next.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RPaaRdn-VDleqACP4xGl-lRLlm4_5R6nKdB74ltxgaE/edit?usp=sharing


i don't get it. could you explain what this is?
Apr. 21, 2017 at 6:16 p.m.
#48
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Quoting: rangersandislesfan
Quoting: ricochetii
Small update. Added all teams. Teams you can play around with are Anaheim and Arizona now.
I have to work out the formulas to include the rest of the teams next.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RPaaRdn-VDleqACP4xGl-lRLlm4_5R6nKdB74ltxgaE/edit?usp=sharing


i don't get it. could you explain what this is?


It's a way we can bid and track all of the UFA's through free agency.
Every team will be able to place their bids through this sheet and it will automatically determine the highest bid/winner of that player.

That's all it does right now. (for Anaheim and Arizona, I have to include the other teams in the formula as well)
Apr. 23, 2017 at 11:12 p.m.
#49
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Money doesn't decide where a player signs .. Stamkos decided to re-sign with TBay for far less than he could have received as a UFA. The team that currently owns a player's rights, should be allowed to sign the player if they choose. The rest of us can decide if the term and dollars make sense to that player.
Apr. 24, 2017 at 7:14 p.m.
#50
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Where are we on this?

The vote is leaning the other way currently .. although there are a lot of ppl that have yet to cast their opinion.
 
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