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The price for Josh Anderson

Created by: Campabee
Team: 2022-23 Montreal Canadiens
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 2, 2022
Published: Dec. 2, 2022
Salary Cap Mode: Basic
Trades
MTL
  1. 2023 1st round pick (NJD)
  2. 2024 3rd round pick (NJD)
Additional Details:
Look you may not like Anderson or his contract but GM's all over the league covet this type of player. So this is the price to acquire Josh Anderson
NJD
  1. Anderson, Josh
Additional Details:
The Devil's are one of the last teams in the league who will be looking to make such significant changes given their place in the standings and depth on the wings. Better targets would be Pittsburgh, Detroit, LA, Edmonton, Nashville, Calgary or Vancouver. I would have said Florida too but Montreal doesn't want to help them and decrease the value we get for their 2023 1st lol
Buyouts
DraftRound 1Round 2Round 3Round 4Round 5Round 6Round 7
2023
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2024
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2025
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ROSTER SIZESALARY CAPCAP HITOVERAGES TooltipBONUSESCAP SPACE
22$82,500,000$68,997,499$1,132,500$5,277,500$13,502,501
Left WingCentreRight Wing
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,100,000$1,100,000
LW, RW
UFA - 2
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$7,875,000$7,875,000
C
UFA - 8
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$6,500,000$6,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 5
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$950,000$950,000 (Performance Bonus$3,500,000$4M)
RW, LW
RFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$6,375,000$6,375,000
C, LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$880,833$880,833 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,450,000$4,450,000
C
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,500,000$2,500,000
RW, LW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$750,000$750,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,362,500$3,362,500
C, RW
RFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,400,000$3,400,000
RW, LW
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,700,000$1,700,000
C
UFA - 3
Left DefenseRight DefenseGoaltender
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,875,000$4,875,000
LD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,500,000$3,500,000
RD
UFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$2,875,000$2,875,000
G
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$875,000$875,000
LD/RD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$762,500$762,500
RD
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$1,000,000$1,000,000
G
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$863,333$863,333 (Performance Bonus$420,000$420K)
LD/RD
RFA - 3
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$842,500$842,500 (Performance Bonus$507,500$508K)
LD/RD
RFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$828,333$828,333
LD/RD
RFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$766,667$766,667
RD
UFA - 3
ScratchesInjured Reserve (IR)Long Term IR (LTIR)
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$5,500,000$5,500,000
LW, RW
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$10,500,000$10,500,000
G
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$4,500,000$4,500,000
LW
UFA - 2
Logo of the Montreal Canadiens
$3,400,000$3,400,000
LW, RW
UFA - 1

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Dec. 2, 2022 at 2:18 p.m.
#51
Craig Laughlin Fan
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Joined: Nov. 2019
Posts: 5,296
Likes: 5,742
Quoting: Campabee
Take a look at the players list of players who scored 30-40 points last year, you will find many 2nd line wingers there and a few 1st liners, guys like Beauvillier, N. Roy, Brown, Domi, Backlund, E. Kane, Tuch, R. Smith, J. Toews, Wennberg, Iaffalo, Pacioretty, C. Smith, Zacha, W. Karlsson, Crouse, Milano, Heinen, Vatrano, Paul, Backstrom and Hayes. I would say that is quite the list of 2nd line forwards, BTW it is more of the 2nd line centers that teams would be calling for a guys head if they were producing at less than 30 points in the top 6.


Backstrom put up 31 in 47 while playing with a hip injury lmao
Tintin liked this.
Dec. 2, 2022 at 2:32 p.m.
#52
we miss leo k
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Joined: Feb. 2018
Posts: 5,973
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Quoting: Campabee
Take a look at the players list of players who scored 30-40 points last year, you will find many 2nd line wingers there and a few 1st liners, guys like Beauvillier, N. Roy, Brown, Domi, Backlund, E. Kane, Tuch, R. Smith, J. Toews, Wennberg, Iaffalo, Pacioretty, C. Smith, Zacha, W. Karlsson, Crouse, Milano, Heinen, Vatrano, Paul, Backstrom and Hayes. I would say that is quite the list of 2nd line forwards, BTW it is more of the 2nd line centers that teams would be calling for a guys head if they were producing at less than 30 points in the top 6.


right off the bat a few names pop out at me - Nick Backstrom, Kevin Hayes, Max Pacioretty, & Evander Kane all played less than 50 games and put up good numbers in that time - Kane & Pacioretty were close to PPG, Hayes & Backstrom were 0.66ish (about 55 pts/82 GP pace). The other guys are mostly guys that strike me as 3rd liners, defensive specialists, or specifically guys that teams are trying to upgrade out of their top 6 (I can tell you personally that most Islanders fans are looking for more out of the top 6 than what Beau brought last year.)

Besides, showing me a list of guys who scored in the 30s (and most of these guys were lower 30s FWIW) doesn't do anything to contradict the fact that an 11-point difference in a single season is noteworthy, and maintaining that pace over a 5 seasons is pretty substantial and usually makes it pretty easy to point out which player is more productive. And it still doesn't answer the question: if Josh Anderson is only as productive as the teammates around him, why should a team pay premium assets to acquire him?
Dec. 2, 2022 at 2:48 p.m.
#53
Thread Starter
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Posts: 15,498
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Quoting: NoVaSpartan
Again, you're trying to make a comparison of their play now, using stats that skew due to the start of a players career doesn't work.
- Anderson having around 29, 30, 32 point seasons is consistent, but really isn't a credit to a player who played most of those seasons and is being payed 5.5 mil for the next 5 years. For Comparison, Conor Sheary scored 40 points playing around the lineup last year, and was being paid 1.5 million.
- Wilson scored more goals than Anderson despite a. Not being a goal scorer and b. not playing near full seasons.
- I'm saying that career points is not a good measure of trying to compare them now. Anderson had the better start to his career, but when you try and actually compare the two's play now, noone is going to care that Anderson did better in his first couple seasons, when both are in their late 20s and the NHL is a "what have you done for me lately" type of league.
- Wilson has also spent the majority of his career, if we want to talk career, not with Ovi and Kuzy as you claim. Though they did play together a majority of 2020, Wilson was rarely on the first line prior to that year (being passed up for Vrana, Burakovsky, and others, even Connolly occasionally), and played with Ovi and Kuzy much less last year and instead played with Oshie (and a revolving door of centers) for parts of the year due to a multitude of injuries (Washington would instead use Sheary, Protas, and Hathaway over Wilson). Wilson's stats are mostly his own, and decently higher than Anderson DESPITE not being someone who puts up large amounts of goals or points (in fact, he rarely even plays PP1 when everyone is healthy, passed up for better passers like Backstrom, Oshie, and Kuznetsov).
-Finally, Wilson has also improved in the last few years while Anderson hasn't. In his last three years, Wilson has improved, going from 44 in 68 games in 2019-20, to 33 in 47 (pace for 58) in 2020-21. Wilson is also far better defensively than Anderson (though not hard to out-pace Anderson's 16% defense rating on JFresh). It's hard to compare a 32 point winger who can't play defense to a 52 point All-Star who also plays much better defense and also throwing nearly 90 more hits while he's at it. Their overall career numbers are similar for a multitude of reasons, but to compare the two in their current state of play and contract, they are nowhere near similar.


how's this look then, over the last 5 years stats only

Wilson since 2018-19: 256 GP 80 G 89 A 169 PTS
21 Playoff GP 6 G 5 A 11 PTS

Anderson since 2018-19: 250 GP 69 G 45 A 114 PTS
32 Playoff GP 6 G 3 A 9 PTS

11 points more per season
goals 11 more = 2.2 more per year

Now factor on Kuznetsov and Ovi and the gap narrows significantly more

Want to just look at the last 3 years

Wilson 58-71-129 in 193 GP PPG 0.67
Anderson 37-23-60 in 138 GP PPG 0.43

That is when the difference becomes more apparent, coincidentally it is also when Josh missed almost an entire season due to surgery. Don't get me wrong there, I am not saying Josh could have made up the 69 points difference but if he had played those extra 55 games then the difference wouldn't have been as significant (like maybe there would have been only 20-30 points separating them over the 3 seasons).

Love how you think that Anderson sucks defensively, Anderson is about average defensively for a forward hovering around the 45.8-59.2% mark in CA/60 by comparison Tom Wilson hovers around 50.5-63.9% so they are similar defensively for their careers, so yes Wilson is on average better defensively than Anderson, Anderson is not as bad defensively as you seem to want everyone to believe.
Dec. 2, 2022 at 3:33 p.m.
#54
Craig Laughlin Fan
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Joined: Nov. 2019
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Quoting: Campabee
how's this look then, over the last 5 years stats only

Wilson since 2018-19: 256 GP 80 G 89 A 169 PTS
21 Playoff GP 6 G 5 A 11 PTS

Anderson since 2018-19: 250 GP 69 G 45 A 114 PTS
32 Playoff GP 6 G 3 A 9 PTS

11 points more per season
goals 11 more = 2.2 more per year

Now factor on Kuznetsov and Ovi and the gap narrows significantly more

Want to just look at the last 3 years

Wilson 58-71-129 in 193 GP PPG 0.67
Anderson 37-23-60 in 138 GP PPG 0.43

That is when the difference becomes more apparent, coincidentally it is also when Josh missed almost an entire season due to surgery. Don't get me wrong there, I am not saying Josh could have made up the 69 points difference but if he had played those extra 55 games then the difference wouldn't have been as significant (like maybe there would have been only 20-30 points separating them over the 3 seasons).

Love how you think that Anderson sucks defensively, Anderson is about average defensively for a forward hovering around the 45.8-59.2% mark in CA/60 by comparison Tom Wilson hovers around 50.5-63.9% so they are similar defensively for their careers, so yes Wilson is on average better defensively than Anderson, Anderson is not as bad defensively as you seem to want everyone to believe.


It seems you missed that Wilson did this despite playing with Ovi and Kuzy far less than you think. In the last three seasons, you said yourself that Wilson has a .67 PPG while Anderson has a .43 PPG. That's not close nor comparable, and was also includes a decent amount of time where Wilson played alongside Oshie/Sheary and whover they could scrounge up to play center. Until the last couple years, he's been buried behind other forwards, yet he still has a far higher PPG than Anderson.

As for defense, it's not as close as you think. This first image is 2021 compared between the two, and the second image is 2019-22 compared:
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Fi_-A4HXgAA5Lw7?format=jpg&name=small

Wilson excels on defense far more than Anderson does. It's really not even in the ballpark to compare a .67 PPG Forward with good defensive stats to a .43 PPG forward with meh defensive stats, while both make nearly the same amount of money. And this is without going into their styles of play, as it's difficult to quantify that.
 
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