Why in the world would Anaheim exchange one expiring RhD for another? Moreover, it's unlikely that the Ducks would want any player in exchange for Shattenkirk unless it's Topi Niemela.

You're short a first in the Horvat deal.

What use does San Jose have for Alex Kerfoot? But they might take a lower draft pick for Merkley.

Short a first in the Horvat deal?!?! Surely you jest. I wouldn’t give up either of Sandin or Lili for a rental (even if it’s Horvat), let alone both. Awful deal for the leafs.

Why in the world would Anaheim exchange one expiring RhD for another? Moreover, it's unlikely that the Ducks would want any player in exchange for Shattenkirk unless it's Topi Niemela.

You're short a first in the Horvat deal.

What use does San Jose have for Alex Kerfoot? But they might take a lower draft pick for Merkley.

Short a first in the Horvat deal?!?! Surely you jest. I wouldn’t give up either of Sandin or Lili for a rental (even if it’s Horvat), let alone both. Awful deal for the leafs.

Not jesting from Vancouver's point of view. I'll bet that's what they'd be asking; they'd turn down the two young defensemen alone. Regardless, Toronto shouldn't be looking at expensive rentals in general and Bo Horvat in particular, because the Maple Leafs couldn't possibly re-sign him and his explosive season looks a lot like Corey Perry's MVP year to me.

I dont think that this deal is really what either team is looking for, Canucks want more pieces and have potential for futures and the leafs arent looking to completely get rid of one of their D pairings, they might do one of them and a 1st but I would be shocked if they dealt both of them

I agree what you’re saying about Torontos point of view, but I would think Vancouver would be all over that. They need defensemen and don’t seem to want to fully rebuild so Sandin and especially Lili (they need RD) would probably be very enticing to them.

The ask that's been reported on the West Coast (including San Jose and Seattle beat writers) is a first, a roster player and a good prospect. Plus they've got Burroughs and Rathbone coming up in addition to Dermott, so I think that Sandin would be an excess of riches for a team that is poor in several other areas.

I was carelessly glib in my first comment, probably because I wasn't happy with this entire ACGM, so let me expand on my thoughts about this proposal from Toronto's PoV, which I failed to do earlier.

I'm against paying significant assets for expensive rentals as a matter of faith. The only time I think that it makes sense is if there is a strong suspicion (wink, wink) that the player is going to re-sign with his new team, a la Hampus Lindholm and Josh Manson -- and I still think that Boston overpaid us for Hampus, no matter how well he's turned out for them. So I would be opposed to Toronto's trading for Horvat on general principles alone.

Moreover, in my humble opinion, big ticket players aren't what the Maple Leafs need, either in the short run or the long run. Toronto doesn't have enough room for TWO such players, and as our mutual friend palhal keeps pointing out, there isn't much room in the budget for renewals of Bunting, Kampf and Samsonov as it is. What the Maple Leafs need is more of THOSE types of quality depth players (not bottom-line fillers). Moreover, Toronto doesn't have a deep prospect pool -- aside from Knies and Niemela, and perhaps Amirov and Robertson, I don't see anyone currently in the system likely to have a significant impact at the NHL level. Therefore, siphoning off some of the assets probably necessary to obtain a big name will be counter-productive almost immediately. So the cost of obtaining an expensive rental like Horvat, Konecny or Chychrun doesn't seem anywhere near worth it, to me.

Furthermore, it's plainly foolish to trade away an entire defensive pair that is expected to be half of your top 4 perhaps as early as next season.

Finally, as I alluded to in my second comment, I'm a little suspicious of Horvat's current burst of productivity and am dubious about the intelligence of obtaining him in particular. I remember guys like Perry and Jeff Skinner having comet-like years. Horvat has never been more than a 60-point player previously, so his current 80-point pace may be an unpleasantly surprising outlier for whoever ends up with him. The cost of missing out on what could have been a big score is dwarfed by the cost of buying a pig in a poke, to use a uniquely American idiomatic phrase.

Happy New Year!

Short a first in the Horvat deal?!?! Surely you jest. I wouldn’t give up either of Sandin or Lili for a rental (even if it’s Horvat), let alone both. Awful deal for the leafs.

I would think the Canucks would take it though. Sandin and Lili seems like what Vancouver needs.

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Here's some facts on Horvat...and why the Leafs and any team should be wary of overpaying for him at TDL or next season

43 points in 38 games. Historically he's a 65 point player 13 of those points on the PP. 24% shooting percent (historically 12%). 20 minutes a game

Now take the maligned Kerfoot of the Leafs. 19 points only two on PP., 15 minutes a game and better plus/minus

Horvat wouldn't be getting all that PP time with the Leafs, so it looks like on regular strength or PK, Horvat is out scoring Kerfoot by 11 points this season. Take that over a half season if the Horvat trade was done now, Horvat would outscore Kerfoot by 11 to 14 points. Now what is the premium the Leafs should give up for that? Not nearly as much as so many think.



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Yes and no, 3LD can be swapped for anyone and we have hughes and OEL already there, we would love Lilje tho, I think van would but it would be better for both sides to do a 1st instead

Yes, that’s why I don’t want to give up too much for him.

And a centre.....Leafs don't need one.
Gee, if Horvat gets so much in as trade as proposed by so many, I wonder what Matthews would get at next years TDL (if the Leafs were to sell)