so he needs to play with elite players to break 0.5ppg? that's not a good thing. But then those guys are still much better than what engvall gets, so why cant he outscore engvall? I mean, if Engvall can score 2 more goals riding shotgun with David Kampf and ZAR, i like to think he'd have more than 17 points playing with guys as good as Strome, McTavish et all, especially if he saw a 50% increase in ice time and way more offensive zone starts

Given all the people in the last two months trying to trade for him here, a player with value

nice cop out attempt bro, but you can tap dance all you want, by your own definition Vatrano is a cap dump.

He definitely is. I wouldn’t waste your time arguing a guy who thinks every leaf player is the best in the world, I mean he talks about Holl being a legit top 4 Dman. Vatrano bring speed, shooter mentality and isn’t afraid to go into corners. I’d take him over Engvall all day long. Also like you mentioned he can play up and down the lineup like Goodrow

Other teams being interested in a player would be the antithesis of a cap dump

Another key difference is my guys aren't trying to offload him

fans on a trade board being interested in a guy is meaningless. But when one guy says a player who is cheaper and worse than another one is a cap dump, then they are also saying that the other guy is a bigger cap dump. That's how logic works.
So again, if you think Engvall is a cap dump, then so is Vatrano. Make up your mind bro

Quite literally Anaheim is not trying to dump Vatrano. That's what makes him not a cap dump.

Engvall on the other hand is at the top of the list of guys out the door if Toronto intends on making any roster trades this season.

Also, this is a trade that's not going to happen in any capacity. I'm not even for it at all. I don't know why you've decided to die on the hill that is Pierre Engvall

Toronto isnt trying to dump engvall either, and just because fans put him in trade proposals doesnt make it true.
So, in review
-Engvall is scoring more while getting less opportunities
-Engvall has better defensive results in tougher zone starts
-Engvall is cheaper with less term

how again is he a cap dump and vatrano isnt? and please, try to answer without saying something like "lots of agms got made saying this" or whatever.

of course it isnt gonna happen, the leafs wouldnt ever do this. And you're the one who said something silly and cant back it up. All you had to say is that engvall wasnt a cap dump.

The difference is at no point has Anaheim tried to get rid of Vatrano. That would be the "dump" part missing from a "cap dump"

It's been widely reported that the Leafs have tried to move Engvall in multiple years.

But, in the specific situation as well, in order to make a hypothetical trade FOR Frank Vatrano (interest = positive value = not a dump), the Leafs would need to move out salary (or a "cap dump" if you will) to make it work. Engvall provides zero value to the Ducks, so he is on everyway a cap dump in this scenario, which is the context we're discussing.

When has it been reported that the Leafs wanted to move Engvall lol? None of Freidman, McKenzie, Marek, Seravalli etc have claimed that. If they did why would they have re-signed him if they didn't want him?

James Mirtle August 2020 https://theathletic.com/2022080/2020/08/25/mirtle-kyle-dubas-begins-leafs-off-season-with-clean-win-and-hes-not-done-yet?source=user-shared-article

Friedman, March 2022
https://www.nhltraderumor.com/are-the-toronto-maple-leafs-interested-in-a-brandon-hagel-trade/

James Mirtle November 2022
https://theathletic.com/3750141/2022/11/01/mirtle-maple-leafs-trade-dubas-keefe-muzzin?source=user-shared-article

He's a depth guy getting paid too much to play as far down the lineup as he is in a cap strapped league. He provides value to the leafs sure, but there is no value for Anaheim from him in this trade. It makes no sense for either side, but you'd need to include him to it or another move to make it all cap compliant if you did. That makes him a cap dump.

Being willing to trade a guy for a better player isn't the same as flat out wanting to get rid of a player lol. The Leafs traded Durzi for Muzzin, doesn't mean they wanted to get rid of him.

They didn't need to lose Durzi's salary to make the at all, which is the difference here. If the leafs wanted to acquire Vatrano, salary has to come out, and as a pending UFA, Engvall hold no future value to the Ducks l. Hence, in the context of which we're discussing, he's a cap dump.

The article you linked claimed if they wanted to trade for someone they have to get rid of Engvalls cap. That doesn't equal them wanting to dump Engvall which is what you're trying to claim. The coaches and management love Engvall for some reason, theres a reason they've been so loyal and been willing to spend more time working with him as opposed to guys like Ritchie, Barabanov, NAK ETC.

That by definition makes him a cap dump. And one that the team has a history of trying to move.