Confused

Forums/Armchair-GM

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Created by: Sabresfuturecupwinners

Team: 2023-24 Buffalo Sabres

Initial Creation Date: Jul. 1, 2023

Published: Jul. 1, 2023

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

We have 4 bottom pair rhd and no true number 4. Also no room for Kulich…

Trades

BUF

2025 4th round pick (ANA)

ANA

Jokiharju, Henri

Buyouts

Christian Ehrhoff: $0

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2024
2025
2026

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

EMBED

TEXT-EMBED

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
24	$83,500,000	$72,972,737	$0	$3,720,000	$10,527,263

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Skinner, Jeff $9,000,000$9,000,000 LW, RW NMC UFA - 4	Thompson, Tage $7,142,857$7,142,857 C UFA - 7	Tuch, Alex $4,750,000$4,750,000 RW, LW M-NTC UFA - 3
Mittelstadt, Casey $2,500,000$2,500,000 LW, C RFA - 1	Cozens, Dylan $7,100,000$7,100,000 C, LW UFA - 7	Peterka, John-Jason $855,833$855,833 ($32,500$32K) LW, RW RFA - 2
Greenway, Jordan $3,000,000$3,000,000 LW, RW UFA - 2	Krebs, Peyton $863,333$863,333 ($412,500$412K) C, LW RFA - 1	Olofsson, Victor $4,750,000$4,750,000 RW, LW UFA - 1
Girgensons, Zemgus $2,500,000$2,500,000 LW, C UFA - 1	Jost, Tyson $2,000,000$2,000,000 C UFA - 1	Okposo, Kyle $2,500,000$2,500,000 ($500,000$500K) RW UFA - 1

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Samuelsson, Mattias $4,285,714$4,285,714 LD UFA - 7	Dahlin, Rasmus $6,000,000$6,000,000 LD/RD UFA - 1	Levi, Devon $925,000$925,000 ($925,000$925K) G RFA - 2
Power, Owen $916,667$916,667 ($1,850,000$2M) LD/RD UFA - 1	Clifton, Connor $3,333,333$3,333,333 RD UFA - 3	Luukkonen, Ukko-Pekka $837,500$837,500 G RFA - 1
Lyubushkin, Ilya $687,500$687,500 RD UFA - 1	Johnson, Erik $3,250,000$3,250,000 RD UFA - 1

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
Stillman, Riley $1,350,000$1,350,000 LD RFA - 1		Quinn, Jack $863,333$863,333 ($850,000$850K) RW, LW RFA - 2
Comrie, Eric $1,800,000$1,800,000 G UFA - 1
Bryson, Jacob $1,850,000$1,850,000 LD/RD RFA - 1
Rousek, Lukas $775,000$775,000 RW RFA - 2

Jul. 1, 2023 at 1:38 p.m.

littlejerryseinfeld

Joined: Nov. 2017

Posts: 27,878

Likes: 14,573

What are you confused about

Jul. 1, 2023 at 1:40 p.m.

mvp13

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 1,916

Likes: 725

Put Dahlin on his left side and all is well. Pretty solid D pairings if you ask me.

gretzkyghosts liked this.

Jul. 1, 2023 at 1:41 p.m.

Sabresfuturecupwinners

Thread Starter

Amateur GM

Joined: Jun. 2016

Posts: 880

Likes: 112

Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld

What are you confused about

My comment wouldn’t save… Neither addition today is a true second pair defender. Logjam at bottom pair rhd. No room for Kulich who is better than Greenway, Jost, Krebs and Okposo.

Jul. 1, 2023 at 1:42 p.m.

littlejerryseinfeld

Joined: Nov. 2017

Posts: 27,878

Likes: 14,573

Quoting: Sabresfuturecupwinners

My comment wouldn’t save… Neither addition today is a true second pair defender. Logjam at bottom pair rhd. No room for Kulich who is better than Greenway, Jost, Krebs and Okposo.

Kulich isn't a 4th liner, not sure why you'd want him there. These are upgrades.

It's also 142 pm on July 1st

Jul. 1, 2023 at 1:47 p.m.

Sabresfuturecupwinners

Thread Starter

Amateur GM

Joined: Jun. 2016

Posts: 880

Likes: 112

Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld

Kulich isn't a 4th liner, not sure why you'd want him there. These are upgrades.

It's also 142 pm on July 1st

I don’t nor never said I wanted Kulich on the 4th line…

Skinner Thompson Tuch
Mittelstadt Cozens Peterka
Kulich Krebs Greenway
Girgensons Jost Okposo

Trade Olofsson or Greenway. Also, yes it’s July 1st but they added 2 more 5-6 rhd. Hopefully Clifton can play like a 4

Jul. 1, 2023 at 1:51 p.m.

littlejerryseinfeld

Joined: Nov. 2017

Posts: 27,878

Likes: 14,573

Quoting: Sabresfuturecupwinners

You complained that he was better than 4th liners.

3 of our top 4 is set, so how many top 4 defensmen do you plan to add.

Relax man

Jul. 1, 2023 at 2:31 p.m.

sabres89

Joined: Feb. 2017

Posts: 8,272

Likes: 6,247

If they go into the season with Clifton paired with power, it's a big upgrade. And there's still time to go bigger. Right kind of d too. Not a bad start.

gretzkyghosts liked this.

Jul. 1, 2023 at 2:39 p.m.

GiggywithGibby

Future Ducks legend

Joined: Jun. 2022

Posts: 9,975

Likes: 6,766

Quoting: Sabresfuturecupwinners

What pairing was Clifton playing while McAvoy was out at the start of the season?

Jul. 1, 2023 at 3:04 p.m.

gretzkyghosts

Joined: Apr. 2018

Posts: 5,352

Likes: 4,799

Edited Jul. 1, 2023 at 3:17 p.m.

Quoting: mvp13

Put Dahlin on his left side and all is well. Pretty solid D pairings if you ask me.

Please the generic Sabre fan.
They only believe what Mike Harrington writes and do not look at the big picture.
First, if one look at the minutes Clifton plays it certainly appear he is a bottom pairing RHD.
But look at who is on that team, Lindholm, McAvoy, Grzelcyk, and Carlo will all obviously get more TOI than he.
He led all Bruin defensemen with 208 hits, 9.0/60 and only MCavoy had more hits 131 v 120.

Second, Johnson is the exact RHD to add.
He has playoff experience and a ring.
He had more hits 121 than anyother AVE d-Man, only Toews and Girard had more blks than he but he had a higher blk/60.
They are right handed Samuelson, exactly what many Sabre fans thought the Sabres should add.

Buffalo did poorly when Samuelsson was out of action, well now they have three of him.

I am sure Granato will figure it out, but they are upgrades over Stillman, Bryson and Lyubushkin.

EDIT:
Clifton played for Sabres coach Don Granato for two seasons with the U.S. National Team Development Program and won a silver medal with the United States at the 2018 IIHF U-18 World Championship.
Tuch also on that team (along with JT Compher)

Bostonbruins liked this.

Jul. 1, 2023 at 10:51 p.m.

#10

Dkollidas

Sabres Fan

Joined: Feb. 2016

Posts: 264

Likes: 39

Quoting: Sabresfuturecupwinners

My comment wouldn’t save… Neither addition today is a true second pair defender. Logjam at bottom pair rhd. No room for Kulich who is better than Greenway, Jost, Krebs and Okposo.

I believe you're technically correct when you state that neither Johnson nor Clifton (yet) are top-4 defensemen.
But I do believe these were good signings for a few reasons...

1) Clifton may yet prove himself to be a top-4 defenseman, limited opportunity in Boston and he does have good analytical number
2) Johnson adds a veteran presence this team needs on the back end. Last season Lybushkin was their most veteran D with about 200 careeer Games Played.
3) Clifton & Johnson may have cost a bit more than some thought he would, but the term, (3yrs for Clifton & 1yr for Johnson) allow the team to build young depth behind these players, while not being stuck with them long term either.
4) It must also be considered that when you have 3 defensemen like Dahlin, Power, and Samuelsson, you have to consider that about 70-75 minutes per night are covered by those three. 120 minutes need to be played in a typical game by a teams' defense group, but cut it down another 5min bc on PP's there's usually only one defneseman. So 115 minus 70 is 45 minutes to be played by the other three. That equates to roughly 15min each for the bottom 3 defensemen on our team. Johnson & Clifton, and whomever of Jokhiharju, Stillman, Lybushkin, & Bryson that they keep & dress can cover that.

on your other statement regarding the forwards I believe you're incorrect, particularly when you take the Quinn injury into consideration.

1) At this point, without any more roster moves I'd suspect that Bryson & Comrie are placed on waivers and sent to Rochester.
2) that leaves you with 8 defensemen & 13 forwards

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch
Peterka-Cozens-Mittelstadt
Greenway-Krebs-XXXX
Girgensons-Jost-Okposo
extra skater) YYYY

X & Y can be covered with multiple options:
Olofsson
Rousek
Kulich
Savoie
Rosen
To a much lesser extent:
Murray
Weissbach
Cederqvist

The Sabres have time because Quinn will start the season on LTIR.
That allows them to keep two of the above mentioned players.
Personally my bet, barring a trade would be Olofsson & Rousek or Savoie if they give him the Shane Wright treatment.
But... I do expect Olofsson to be dealt. They have so much forward depth that I don't believe they want Olofsson to be the answer to a Quinn injury. They want one of these younger guys to step up and grab that role.

gretzkyghosts liked this.

Jul. 1, 2023 at 11:21 p.m.

#11

gretzkyghosts

Joined: Apr. 2018

Posts: 5,352

Likes: 4,799

Quoting: Dkollidas

I believe you're technically correct when you state that neither Johnson nor Clifton (yet) are top-4 defensemen.
Yet! Boston had 4 very good D-men ahead of Clifton.
When MCavoy was out, Clifton was paired with Lindholm.
Neither may be top pairing but as you alluded, they are an improvement over Bryson, Stillman and Lyubushkin.
It was great that Buffalo now has more than adequate D-men depth.
But I do believe these were good signings for a few reasons...

1) Clifton may yet prove himself to be a top-4 defenseman, limited opportunity in Boston and he does have good analytical number
2) Johnson adds a veteran presence this team needs on the back end. Last season Lybushkin was their most veteran D with about 200 careeer Games Played.
3) Clifton & Johnson may have cost a bit more than some thought he would, but the term, (3yrs for Clifton & 1yr for Johnson) allow the team to build young depth behind these players, while not being stuck with them long term either.
4) It must also be considered that when you have 3 defensemen like Dahlin, Power, and Samuelsson, you have to consider that about 70-75 minutes per night are covered by those three. 120 minutes need to be played in a typical game by a teams' defense group, but cut it down another 5min bc on PP's there's usually only one defneseman. So 115 minus 70 is 45 minutes to be played by the other three. That equates to roughly 15min each for the bottom 3 defensemen on our team. Johnson & Clifton, and whomever of Jokhiharju, Stillman, Lybushkin, & Bryson that they keep & dress can cover that.

on your other statement regarding the forwards I believe you're incorrect, particularly when you take the Quinn injury into consideration.

1) At this point, without any more roster moves I'd suspect that Bryson & Comrie are placed on waivers and sent to Rochester Completely agree, they will run wth Levi and Luukkonen.
2) that leaves you with 8 defensemen & 13 forwards

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch
Peterka-Cozens-Mittelstadt
Greenway-Krebs-XXXX
Girgensons-Jost-Okposo
extra skater) YYYY

X & Y can be covered with multiple options:
Olofsson
Rousek
Kulich
Savoie
Rosen
To a much lesser extent:
Murray
Weissbach
Cederqvist

The Sabres have time because Quinn will start the season on LTIR.
That allows them to keep two of the above mentioned players.
Personally my bet, barring a trade would be Olofsson & Rousek or Savoie if they give him the Shane Wright treatment.
But... I do expect Olofsson to be dealt. They have so much forward depth that I don't believe they want Olofsson to be the answer to a Quinn injury. They want one of these younger guys to step up and grab that role. OK, I am crazy here, but Adams sits on a horse shoe.
Benson miraculasly fell into his lap, he tried to trade up to get Wahlberg and he was available at 39, then McCarthy should have been taken in the second round but was available at 86.
Quinn's injury could open up a spot for Olofsson.
Granato got Skinner to play a 200 foot game if Olofsson can do the same, he will return much more at the TDL.
That could be another horse shoe moment.

Well thought out nice job.
See my comments in your text.

Dkollidas and Bostonbruins liked this.

Jul. 2, 2023 at 1:27 a.m.

#12

Dkollidas

Sabres Fan

Joined: Feb. 2016

Posts: 264

Likes: 39

Quoting: gretzkyghosts

Well thought out nice job.
See my comments in your text.

Thank you.
I'm leaning to agree with you about Adams' view on the goaltending situation, but at the same time, for a player like Hellebuyck, I'm sure Buffalo's front office does have an offer on the table for Hellebuyck. Idk what it is but even as a rental i believe you're talking about
1. Ostlund (OR) Rosen

PLUS

2. Lynushkin (OR) Jokhiharju (OR) Olofsson (w/retention, idk $$$)

AND

3. UPL/Comrie, maybe one, maybe the other, maybe even both?

I just don't know how many clubs Winnipeg has that can fit and have the assets for Hellebuyck, and Buffalo is in the perfect spot to add a vet netminder like that.

Of teams that need goalies:
1) Montreal has the space, but do they have the assets?
2) Toronto doesn't really have the cap space
3) Chicago??? Maybe but would you want that to be an anchor contract when Bedard is... 25???
And they wouldn't get him as a rental
4) Colorado and Winnipeg aren't trading and does Colorado really have the space?
5) Carolina signed their guys all today
6) Jersey doesn't really have the cap space any more after the extension to Meier
7) Pittsburgh retained Jarry
8) Washington? I mean maybe a last ditch effort for Ovie,
but I doubt Kemper is accepting a trade to Winnipeg and he'd have to be a part of the deal.
9) Edmonton doesn't have the cap space
10) Los Angeles made their play and don't have space
11) Seattle is a viable candidate but I don't think they're looking to make that kind of move, just my vibe. And still have to re-sign Dunn & Borgen
12) Vegas just brought back Hill

So maybe 4 competitors? (Montreal, New Jersey, Seattle, Washington) But are any of them realistic?

gretzkyghosts liked this.

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Forums/Armchair-GM

Confused

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