Terrible trade for CAR.

This is bad for CAR. Take out KK and add in a prospect instead and it wouldn't be so bad.

Awful deal for Carolina swap KK dor Drury or Suzuki. KK straight up could be what Lindholm is as a fine 2C

You do realize that Lindholm got quite a bit better since you traded him to us, don't you?

Lindholm's a 60 point C, all that's changed since he left is his position. He's still suboptimal defensively, and he needs elite linemates to be an elite producer. He's a Trocheck replacement. I still wouldn't move KK for that who could be that in his own right

That's where we disagree. He is quite good defensively, that's why he finished 2nd in Selke voting 2 years ago. If Bergeron was slightly worse, then he would've won it.

Toffoli, at the age of 30, had a career year last year thanks to playing with Lindholm. He scored 73pts(15 more than his previous career high). Also the Flames had a terrible PP last year and didn't get to utilize Lindholm's shot.

Finally here are Lindholm's (pro rated to an 82 game season) point totals since he left Carolina, I think he's more than a 60pt C.
2018-19 79pts
2019-20 69pts
2020-21 69pts
2021-22 82pts
2022-23 66pts

Ain’t no way these Carolina fans are taking KK at 4.82M for the next 8 years over Elias Lindholm. KK was struggling to play 2C lmao.

We are quite good with Kotkaniemi due to age, defensive play, and cap hit.

This is what you get when you offer sheet for ” revenge”.
Now stuck with him for the next 8 years at 4.8M. Not ideal. He still has so much to prove. If he can’t show that he can play 2C, then idk what y’all are going to do with him. And seems like Rod isn’t the biggest fan of him.

Again, you site point totals and you see they're raised when he played with Tkachuk and Gaudreau... Lindholm's totals are drastically inflated with them. He's a 66 point C without them, and he's below replacement level defensively according to his underlying numbers.

This is an awful take... KK is one of the best defensive players in the league. He had 40 points at the age of 23 while being a defensive stalwart and both of the guys he was scheduled to start the season with ended the year on LTIR. Hell, even Teravainen had his hand broken by JG Pageau... Lindholm is a rental. He's better than KK right now, yes. But he likely won't be in what a year maybe two?

You were the one saying he's a 60pt C. I showed you that's not quite right. Now you're suggesting that all his production was due to his wingers, but how many top line players play with 3rd liners on a consistent basis?

As for Lindholm being sus defensively, it just shows me you watch him play twice a year, and refer to one spreadsheet or another. He does quite a bit in the D zone, and helps his defensemen a lot. Don't take my word for it though, experts around the league, his peers, and his coaches compliment his defensive play. Regarding the actual analytics, he always had good xG%, Corsi, and Fenwick, but those are often attributed to Sutter.

If we use the logic you applied to Lindholm to KK, then he'd be a replacement level 30pt C in your eyes. Getting a 60pt C for him seems like a steal. He's not better defensively, he's not better offensively. The only thing that works in his favor is him being younger. He might not even be worth that contract unless the cap goes up substantially.

Sebastian Aho was a PPG with Seth Jarvis and MacKenzie MacEachern on his wings... 1st line centers are PPG players without elite linemates. You gave his point totals which show the disparity of when he was playing with Tkachuk and Gaudreau.

You say I don't watch lindholm... even if that was true (which it isn't) he's below replacement level analytically. His xGA stats are below replacement, his Corsi against stats are below replacement level, and his xG% is not good either.

Kotkaniemi isn't a comparable because he's 23, and he could still be a 60 point guy in his own right. KK is better than Lindholm defensively (KK is a defensive monster, like a baby Backlund) but you're right he is not as good offensively. He's already worth his contract. Trying to argue that shows me you watch Kotkaniemi twice a year, and maybe not even that. He can be an offensive blackhole, but he's straight up better defensively. I wouldn't move KK, who is signed long term, for a rental Lindholm. No sane person would.

We aren’t stuck with kk. He is a really good player who matches our system. He is already out producing his deal and the cap hasn’t gone up yet.

Glad the revenge narrative won’t die