I’ll probably be in the minority but I would do that, although would maybe go with Allison/Seeler instead of the 4th? Figure that’s not much of a difference

Ottawa has a brand new owner. I can't see him approving this kind of deal

2nd round pick, 1st (10th OA) from 2 years ago, 1st (19th OA) from 4 years ago

Sure, Boucher and Thomson don't nearly have this value but just to move a guy that was signed to this contract just a year ago and now paying a significant price to move him while he's not even a bad player, would be terrible asset management

I have dug a lot of MJ numbers and I found this :

1) Last 3 seasons, Pts/60 among the 419 forwards with at least 1000 mins at ES, Joseph ranks 257th with 1.64 so he produces fairly reasonably for the amount of time he's not on the PK

It's a better rate than : Mikael Granlund, Dominik Kubalik, Tanner Pearson, Jean-Gabriel Pageau, Jesper Fast, Vladislav Namestnikov, Noah Cates, Kyle Okposo, Lars Eller, Scott Laughton, Kailer Yamamoto, Alex Wennberg, Mike Hoffman, Corey Perry, Sean Monahan, Nick Foligno, etc

2) Joseph career : 95 ES/PK pts in 288 games, 10:57 ES TOI/GP, 0.33 PPG, 27 ESP/PK pts per 82 games.

For that little amount of time (a lot on Tampa's 4th line, the top contender for all his time there), it's actually pretty decent production.

In comparison for 2022-23 :

Blake Coleman 36 ESP in 82 games, 4.9 AAV
Nazem Kadri 37 ESP in 82 games, 7.0 AAV
Andrew Mangiapane 37 ESP in 82 games, 5.8 AAV
Mikael Backlund 40 ESP in 82 games, 5.35 AAV
Jonathan Huberdeau 40 ESP in 79 games, 10.5 AAV
Barclay Goodrow 28 ESP in 82 games, 3.6 AAV
Chris Kreider 33 ESP in 79 games, 6.5 AAV

And now adding some Sens forwards :

Shane Pinto 26 ESP in 82 games
Drake Batherson 33 ESP in 82 games, 4.975 AAV
Alex DeBrincat 36 ESP in 82 games, 6.4 AAV

Sens have no choice to move someone else, Kubalik (my choice) or Brannstrom (can afford it since Kleven is ready). Joseph is more needed than people think (PK and ES defense)


You would do that because you want the situation to be resolved, it's natural. The Season starts in less than 3 weeks, you want to know what it's going to happen now, we all do and this "fan anxiety" would make us accept things that we normally wouldn't accept

You have to move one of the 2 guys that won’t be here for longer than a year

I would be down with the trade above and the one u suggested here

What matters more? Cap space and goals. MJ is being paid too much money to score 3 goals in a year, fact... The contract was a mistake and should've been half the price at half the term (2 x 1.475). Unfortunately, MJ played lights out with Norris and Tkachuk (they very much carried him) when Bath went down and so that meant wow, he can play anywhere and everywhere when we had Connor Brown just sitting there...

Kubalik offers consistent 20 goal scoring year after year. At 2.5, that's not awful.

Brannstrom, while undersized, offers underrated defensive metrics + puck moving D/depth if Chychrun or Chabot go down to injury.

I guarantee you, we won't miss Jospeh as much as the advanced stats lead you to believe. This trade is more than reasonable and doesn't do too much damage to Ottawa's future other than hurt the friends per 60 Dorion considers every time he makes a move. Specially when Grieg takes his place in the PK and ES categories.

I'd like a depth roster player back... Wade Allison comes to mind. Lower the 4th round pick to a 7th rounder and include Wade and it's more than fair.

Yeah Brannstrom or Kubalik

If there's no smart deal to make with Joseph, then it's a no brainer


Last year is an anomaly... Joseph is actually a pretty decent goal scorer for having played 4th line minutes for the bulk of his career

Prior to last season, he scored 40 ES/PK goals in 232 games, which is 0.17 GPG at ES/PK

It doesn't seem like a lot but note that his career ES TOI/GP is 10:57 minutes per game

And that Drake Batherson scored 37 ES goals in 227 career NHL games, which is 0.16 GPG at ES

DeBrincat last season? 16 ES goals in 82 games, 0.19 GPG at ES

These guys get significantly more minutes per game with better offensive players

Kubalik? 38 ES goals in 215 NHL games, which is 0.18 GPG at ES (again, more minutes with better linemates)

My question now would be :

Who does Kubalik play PP over to reach the 20 goals plateau? Pinto/Greig/Brannstrom (only 1 of them can be the 10th guy) or someone else?

This is not advanced stats, this is raw stats ratios... and note that Joseph is primarily a defensive forward and more of a playmaker than goal scorer

It's Kubalik or Brannstrom out for a pick, I think.

Everybody points at 3 goals last year for Joseph. Advanced stats - he had just under 10 expected goals. I know advanced stats don't win games - but they do better predicting future results than goal totals do.

And he's a much better than average defensive forward in the NHL. If he regresses to his career average shooting % and continues to penalty kill like he did - him scoring 10 goals is more valuable than Kubalik's 15 he's likely to get without PP time. Joseph is fast, he is smart defensively as well.... I wouldn't exactly call him a playmaker, but the only thing he's really not at an NHL level is shooting/scoring.

Kubalik is a one-timer specialist.

Reminder that the salary difference between Kubalik and Joseph is $450k, and Ottawa's salary crunch is just a this-season thing. Spending an asset to get rid of Joseph would be very short-sighted - and might not even be the best thing for this year's Sens

JFresh on Kubalik: https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1678199427947716608
JFresh on Joseph: https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1552804423931420673

Or, Norris is out on LTIR and they can just sign Pinto. I really hope that's not the case.

I didn't mean that Joseph was a playmaker, more than he was a bit better at it than scoring goals. In the end, he's neither because he's a defensive forward who can give you a bit of offense from the 3rd line

One thing for sure, he has become madly underrated on this site, some talk of him as a "9.3m$ cap dump"... so stupid