Tough to respond to every single post in this thread when you replied to yourself 3x in a row, so I focused on a short little reply to the Makar/Bouchard comparison.

If you think the silver bullet that makes Edmonton’s RD better than Colorado’s is Vincent Desharnais and a bunch of random depth guys that won’t play in the NHL this year, I don’t know what to tell you. That is a very weak argument.

Those random depth guys don’t make up for the major gap of Makar being better than everyone on Edmonton’s D by a wide margin.

Makar is significantly better than Bouchard. Bouchard is really good. Makar is the best defenseman in the world.

I think people have been too hard on Ceci over his career (and maybe not hard enough on Manson). That said, I think both of those guys are a wash. Solid enough 4D options.

So I guess I don’t really understand your point here unless you’re making the argument that Bouchard=Makar. Which is why I responded to that message instead of one of your other three.

drai. very easily. second best player in the world. makar is 4th or 5th

you could also look at whos team would be hurt more if that trade happened.

But here you want mess around

Makar vs Bouchard All Strengths notice Makar starts and gets more faceoffs in the offensive zone, so is sheltered more.
Get rid of per 60, they were close in TOI https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playercompare.php?fromseason=20222023&thruseason=20222023&stype=2&sit=all&score=all&stdoi=oi&rate=n&p1=8480803&p2=8480069&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single
Total offence 5v5 Makar vs Bouchard 5v5 offence but Bouchard played more 5v5
So, per 60 Makar vs Bouchard/60 5v5 offence
PP Totals
Makar vs Bouchard PP on ice Makar vs Bouchard PP offence notice Makar has more TOI in less games, sheltered again. But Makar did have more PK too
So, Makar vs Bouchard/60 PK on ice wonder which team had better goaltending.
Who were they most paired with last season; Toews/Makar, and rookie Broberg/Bouchard

What does all this mean? I don't care. Because my argument was Drai can't be compared to Makar, but IMO the Oilers would be worse without Leon and with Makar than vice versa

We are going in circles and you proved my point. You are arguing that Bouchard is comparable to Makar. That is why I thought you were trolling. Bouchard is good! He’s not Cale Makar.

I think the Oilers would improve more tbh. We all saw how they unlocked a different level once they acquired Ekholm. You would still have McDavid at 1C and RNH, a guy who just put up 100 pts at 2C. Then a top pairing of Ekholm-Makar? Disgusting.

Thinking about the power play gets me excited for the next international competition. McDavid and Makar on the same unit would be incredible.

Nuge plays LW mostly now, so hard to say.

Team Canada would be unreal right now agreed. Probably the rest of the world keeping NHLers out of international competition lol

I've gotten you and the original person I was having a discussion with confused in all this lol. But the facts remain. I was comparing all of the Oilers RD to the Avalanches, not just Makar and Bouchard

You missed the point.

As @Fail4Nail said at the very beginning of this whole thing: Makar and Manson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bouch and Ceci

I responded a few times to your argument that the RD depth for the Avs is worse, but I can summarize for you.

Makar >>>>>>>>> Bouchard
Manson =/= Ceci

Then you keep coming back to depth defenseman and referencing Vincent Desharnais and a bunch of AHL guys. Calling your 8th and 9th defensemen an upgrade over guys like Sam Malinski et al is a weak argument, especially considering the magnitude of the gap at the top of the depth.

We could keep going on this, but I’m worried that responding another time might awaken you like a sexism sleeper cell again.

You gotta take Makar right? Drai is amazing but it's hard to see him quite as successful away from McDavid. Just look at how all the forwards around him have insane years.

Quit with the sexism lol. Was making a joke. You're still cherry pickin.

Agreed. Makar better, but not more better compared to Bouchard than Draisaitl is compared to McLeod IMO

Disagree. Ceci better, Mansons hurt to much

= so far

and the most important part and what depth means is Desharnais and possibly Kemp are better than any player the Avs have to put on the right side on the 3rd pair without making their other pairings worse

Also Wanner and Akey are better than Malinski and Clurman IMO. Because depth, and depth, and because the argument was about depth.

The * is you gotta give Toews some credit for Makars success and yes Bouchard got to play with Ekholm, but he played more with rookie Philip Broberg last season

I see the argument about Draisitl being a center a lot but he does play with McDavid close to 40% of his ice time (by last years most common linemates), with McDavid on the same team imo it would be a pretty easy decision to take Makar over him, just like COL having MacKinnon would take Makar over him.

It's really hard to compare the two of them, the situations they're each in, position they play and their massively different play styles make it impossible to make great comparisons.

Drai is a better passer, shooter and can control the game in the offensive zone better.
Makar is a better defender (in transition and in zone), better puck carrier and has elite skating which helps in zone offense.

It's really just take your pick at what you value more in a player, for me its the skating and defense Makar has; for others maybe its Drai's elite scoring ability.
They're too close for either decision to really be wrong.

I wouldn’t say Draisitl is better passer or shooter at all, they do their work in the offensive zone at different place. Draisitl is a beast on the half wall and in the “forward” type area, but there are guys as good as him in those areas granted they’re the best players in the world like MacKinnon. Makar is a straight up unicorn for his offensive work from the blue line there is nobody that does what he does there. But yeah comparisons are hard the absolute consensus though is you’re talking about 2 of the 5 best players on the planet according to everybody.

Agreed on pretty much everything above, Makar's elite edgework makes him a must watch nightly and makes him extremely effective in the O-zone (along with everywhere else on the ice).
Credit where its due though, Drai is the best passer in the league and his shot is better than Makar's, not to say Makar isn't elite in either of these categories.