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Pens Fans need to calm down

Created by: pens1991
Team: 2023-24 Pittsburgh Penguins
Initial Creation Date: Dec. 11, 2023
Published: Dec. 11, 2023
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Whether it's on here or on twitter, Pens fans are starting to drive me up a wall.

First thing to remember as far as Kyle Dubas goes. He was signed in hopes that he can try and revive something of what's left of the team, while also getting to work on a future rebuilding of the team. That's a very delicate balance for any GM to manage, specially one with the circumstances around the penguins.

A lot of fans continue to critique and complain about certain moves made by Dubas this season while blindly ignore some of the following:

-Ron Hextall made some awful trades and signed some awful contracts. (Jeff Carter is stuck on this team thanks to Hextall and the contract given to Rakell prevents him from being traded like many pens fans continue to push (no team wants that contract on that player)

-Ryan Graves = Definitely has not been a great signing, but if you look at the UFA market, please point out another direction you would've gone for a top 4 LD? All I can see is maybe Mikkola or Soucy. The market was full of mostly nothing after that, or players that were never going to come to Pittsburgh due to their cap requirements or players that resigned with their previous team.

-Bottom 6 = I'm not sure what else there was to do when every analyst and team went into the summer noting that this was not a very strong UFA class of Free Agents. ROR? He wasn't coming to the penguins. Dubas traded for him in TOR and my assumption is that if he wanted him in Pittsburgh and they had a good relationship, there would've been a better chance. Duchene was always going to a contender and the Penguins were not a contender. After that the center depth was awful. DET Overpaid Compher (pens could never afford that), Domi is not a good center and awful defensively, After that you're pretty sol (sure there were guys like Donato/EROD/Geekie that I would've liked to see, but think only EROD could realistically be a 3C of that group.

-Jarry = He's been very strong this year, and while people complain about the AAV and Term (term to me is meaningless given the team will be in shambles by the final year of his contract) I'm not sure what else the team does in the summer. Many wanted to go with two backups that would save money, but I think that's vastly too much of a gamble for a team that's supposed to essentially be in their final year(s) of trying to win another cup, you need to have a goalie that you believe can be the top guy. Guys like Stolarz/Talbot/Rittich have benefited from being on very deep and strong teams, I think the same can be said about Reimer and Lyon even though i've seen some in Detroit wanting to upgrade the position. Raanta and Anderson were both going to stay, and guys like Quick were only going to sign with a contender. This is another example of terrible UFA market.


Many people can obviously point out making a trade to address Bottom 6/Defense/Goaltending in the summer over the signings, but Dubas noted wanting to maintain his assets while trying to make the team competitive and that's a very delicate balance. He obviously choose to spend his 1st on Erik Karlsson as is one big trade to improve things and while he's been great, the PP has been awful, and that's somewhere that EK needs to be adding value to.

The penguins are stuck in limbo for a number of reasons but those reasons have meant that we've been able to enjoy the best player in the world for the past decade and a half and win 3 cups. At this point fans just need to enjoy getting to watch someone like Sid age like a fine wine.

There isn't much left that can be done imo unless Dubas really decided to blow away whats left of the future (few prospects and your picks). Lots of penguin fans continue to think it's simple to move out someone like Acciari or Graves or Rakell. It's just not there.
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Dec. 11, 2023 at 3:01 p.m.
#1
You know nothing JS
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As he did in Toronto, I 100% count on Dubas to trade away all his high picks to dump salary, get old veterans and cheap average players, all in the spirit to calm down the fanbase/ star players by having the team make the playoffs, loose in the 1st round and dangle that there is always next season...
Dec. 11, 2023 at 3:05 p.m.
#2
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Quoting: jpsnow13
As he did in Toronto, I 100% count on Dubas to trade away all his high picks to dump salary, get old veterans and cheap average players, all in the spirit to calm down the fanbase/ star players by having the team make the playoffs, loose in the 1st round and dangle that there is always next season...


Toronto had a young core. The Pens will be headed into a rebuild sooner rather than later, he's not using high picks to dump salary which he only has done twice in Toronto, once to fix Lou's mistake and another time to fix his own but he got a high 2nd back.

The Pens might not make it past the first round or even make the playoffs but that's just the nature of the situation with trying to keep the core together which extends beyond the trio, they are going to want to win together at the end of the day. It's either this or a full tear-down rebuild, and the choice was made by Hextall or Fenway before Dubas was even in charge.
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Dec. 11, 2023 at 3:11 p.m.
#3
DNP1932
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Quoting: jpsnow13
As he did in Toronto, I 100% count on Dubas to trade away all his high picks to dump salary, get old veterans and cheap average players, all in the spirit to calm down the fanbase/ star players by having the team make the playoffs, loose in the 1st round and dangle that there is always next season...


Doubt hes going to do so considering what’s hes already said. And hes got all the control in this situation not only that but the fan base isn’t Toronto. While Pittsburgh fans can be irrational think they understand that the rebuild is coming. As for what he said it’s pretty spot on. I like the moves he made, personally knew the injuries could be an issue and they are sadly, but maybe some guys recently brought up will show they have something to give in the nhl who knows. The 2 players he would want to dump salary on as of now are rakell and graves, hes not going to do anything with rakell until he comes back, he might’ve been playing injured and that might of been what made his production take a nose dive, as for graves i think its a matter of hoping being moved down to a 3rd pair role in parts of the games for the last week or so sparks him. The only complaint i really have with dubas thus far is the leniency given to coaching staff, he seemed to do that in Toronto as well, I’m not saying firing sully right now, but over the break we just had reirdan should’ve been fired, no excuse there imo.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 3:13 p.m.
#4
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pens1991
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Quoting: jpsnow13
As he did in Toronto, I 100% count on Dubas to trade away all his high picks to dump salary, get old veterans and cheap average players, all in the spirit to calm down the fanbase/ star players by having the team make the playoffs, loose in the 1st round and dangle that there is always next season...


Quoting: GMBL
Toronto had a young core. The Pens will be headed into a rebuild sooner rather than later, he's not using high picks to dump salary which he only has done twice in Toronto, once to fix Lou's mistake and another time to fix his own but he got a high 2nd back.

The Pens might not make it past the first round or even make the playoffs but that's just the nature of the situation with trying to keep the core together which extends beyond the trio, they are going to want to win together at the end of the day. It's either this or a full tear-down rebuild, and the choice was made by Hextall or Fenway before Dubas was even in charge.


The penguins star players have also won... Toronto's have not. More urgency in Toronto than Pittsburgh to win with your core.
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Dec. 11, 2023 at 3:16 p.m.
#5
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pens1991
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Quoting: DNP1932
Doubt hes going to do so considering what’s hes already said. And hes got all the control in this situation not only that but the fan base isn’t Toronto. While Pittsburgh fans can be irrational think they understand that the rebuild is coming. As for what he said it’s pretty spot on. I like the moves he made, personally knew the injuries could be an issue and they are sadly, but maybe some guys recently brought up will show they have something to give in the nhl who knows. The 2 players he would want to dump salary on as of now are rakell and graves, hes not going to do anything with rakell until he comes back, he might’ve been playing injured and that might of been what made his production take a nose dive, as for graves i think its a matter of hoping being moved down to a 3rd pair role in parts of the games for the last week or so sparks him. The only complaint i really have with dubas thus far is the leniency given to coaching staff, he seemed to do that in Toronto as well, I’m not saying firing sully right now, but over the break we just had reirdan should’ve been fired, no excuse there imo.


I'd agree and even though Rakell wasn't scoring he was clearly a benefit to the second line which nose dived when he went out. Also if the penguins have a league Avg. PP no one is probably saying anything about the penguins and they're most likely in a WC spot or top 3 in metro.

Graves would be hard to move given it's the first year of his contract but I would love to see Ludvig with Letang until Graves earns it back

I'm very indifferent on Sullivan... Sometimes I look at the team and go "well what can he do", but I don't know how Reirden isn't gone.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 3:26 p.m.
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DNP1932
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Quoting: pens1991
I'd agree and even though Rakell wasn't scoring he was clearly a benefit to the second line which nose dived when he went out. Also if the penguins have a league Avg. PP no one is probably saying anything about the penguins and they're most likely in a WC spot or top 3 in metro.

Graves would be hard to move given it's the first year of his contract but I would love to see Ludvig with Letang until Graves earns it back

I'm very indifferent on Sullivan... Sometimes I look at the team and go "well what can he do", but I don't know how Reirden isn't gone.


I think the team on paper is pretty damn good, the bottom 6 isn’t ideal but was more defensively sound so it was an upgrade, if rakell was scoring and didn’t get hurt think that top 6 would be at least top 10 if not top 5 in the league. The defence is kinda a mixed bag but if graves was playing to his potential think it be really solid to great top 4, and obviously our goalie tandem is top 10 atm. Sadly injuries are derailing it, which I’m ok with, all pens fan should’ve known injuries were gonna be an issue if they had more than a couple players out. But your analysis was pretty spot on. Although i will add idm him touching 1 of the 2 1st round picks we have left in the next 3 years or Pickering, that’s probably an unpopular opinion to pens fan who would be reading this on this site, but if he makes a solid move for a younger guy who can be resigned after this season and be traded once the team needs to start the rebuild feel like its a good move.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 3:27 p.m.
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Two cups in the previous decade and 3 with this core just isn't enough for some people I guess. Props on the post and being able to appreciate the success the Pens had, being rid of Hextall, and their current situation.

It's clearly that the next 3 to 5 years is just going to be about giving Crosby and Co a chance to win another Cup but on their terms which is probably why the status quo was kept in the net with the Jarry signing. I imagine Guentzel is going to come back as well unless there are contract issues there or they can upgrade (but even then doubtful). At the end of the day, Pens fans should just be hopeful rather than expecting to win, especially since the Atlantic has gotten even stronger now, and are likely to take both wild-card spots, whether it be this year or the next.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 4:30 p.m.
#8
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I agree with this entire thread. Well broken down and well said
Dec. 11, 2023 at 5:20 p.m.
#9
You know nothing JS
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Quoting: pens1991
The penguins star players have also won... Toronto's have not. More urgency in Toronto than Pittsburgh to win with your core.


No urgency to win in Pittsburgh?! LOL tell that to Crosby... must be why they resigned Malkin and Letang instead of improving their empty prospect pool.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 5:25 p.m.
#10
DNP1932
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Quoting: jpsnow13
No urgency to win in Pittsburgh?! LOL tell that to Crosby... must be why they resigned Malkin and Letang instead of improving their empty prospect pool.


He’s just saying more urgency in Toronto, and what would not resigning Malkin and letang have to do with their prospect pool, both of them signed at AAVs that were below what they would’ve gotten in FA, but probably more term, but having them around when they start a rebuild could prove useful. its not like they could just sign guys in FA to restore the prospect pool lol.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 5:49 p.m.
#11
You know nothing JS
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Quoting: DNP1932
He’s just saying more urgency in Toronto, and what would not resigning Malkin and letang have to do with their prospect pool, both of them signed at AAVs that were below what they would’ve gotten in FA, but probably more term, but having them around when they start a rebuild could prove useful. its not like they could just sign guys in FA to restore the prospect pool lol.


Have you ever hear of trades? Let me explain: You give Malkin and Letang to another team and they give prospects and draft picks and return. Thats how you restore the prospect pool lol (preferably before giving them horrible long term deals to maximise return)

Also resigning multiple 35+ veterans to long term deals to become the oldest team in the league is suprisingly NOT how anyone starts a rebuild.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 6:11 p.m.
#12
DNP1932
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Edited Dec. 11, 2023 at 7:33 p.m.
Quoting: jpsnow13
Have you ever hear of trades? Let me explain: You give Malkin and Letang to another team and they give prospects and draft picks and return. Thats how you restore the prospect pool lol (preferably before giving them horrible long term deals to maximise return)

Also resigning multiple 35+ veterans to long term deals to become the oldest team in the league is suprisingly NOT how anyone starts a rebuild.


Yes, they weren’t gonna trade Malkin and letang when they were going to make the playoffs that year. And wow you don’t say, its almost as if they weren’t starting a rebuild, weird how that works. Plus the term is of no real concern, the AAV is low enough especially with the cap going up they’ll be fine, the contracts will be well up by the time they’d be competing for the playoffs again anyways.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 7:57 p.m.
#13
You know nothing JS
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Quoting: DNP1932
Yes, they weren’t gonna trade Malkin and letang when they were going to make the playoffs that year. And wow you don’t say, its almost as if they weren’t starting a rebuild, weird how that works. Plus the term is of no real concern, the AAV is low enough especially with the cap going up they’ll be fine, the contracts will be well up by the time they’d be competing for the playoffs again anyways.


Aaaaand we are back to my top comment: Dubas will be a buyer at TDL and the team will loose in the 1st round.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 8:09 p.m.
#14
DNP1932
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Quoting: jpsnow13
Aaaaand we are back to my top comment: Dubas will be a buyer at TDL and the team will loose in the 1st round.


Ok and? First off you don’t know that, this team certainly is in a much better spot then last year, and the main core is all playoff proven. the only player id be worried about in the playoffs is jarry. If hes conservative and smart with buying knowing hes in a different situation here in Pittsburgh, as long as the top 4 and top 6 are healthy and rakell finds his form again he really doesn’t need to make a splash, just role players. Meaning not spending a 1st.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 8:19 p.m.
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pens1991
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Quoting: jpsnow13
No urgency to win in Pittsburgh?! LOL tell that to Crosby... must be why they resigned Malkin and Letang instead of improving their empty prospect pool.


You missed my entire point. The core in Pittsburgh has cups, the core in Toronto doesn't and while Dubas was still there that core was getting closer and closer to UFA status so the desire to win was greater in order to keep said core around.

As for trading Malking and Letang, They would've needed to be traded before the end of the 2021-22 season at which point the penguins were in the playoffs (and had they not had to roll a 3rd string goalie against the rangers, probably move on to the divisional round). There was no chance that was happening at time.

Also, as good as both Malkin and Letang are, I believe they were 35 and 34 at the time. Not sure realistically what type of return you get out of both of them... Maybe a 1st for each? It's hard to find recent deals with players in their mid 30s. Marleau was 40 and pens gave up a 3rd at the Deadline for him.

End of the day those three wanted to stick together and when you look at their output compared to their AAV they're all underpaid, so it's a net positive.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 10:49 p.m.
#16
You know nothing JS
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Quoting: DNP1932
Ok and? First off you don’t know that, this team certainly is in a much better spot then last year, and the main core is all playoff proven. the only player id be worried about in the playoffs is jarry. If hes conservative and smart with buying knowing hes in a different situation here in Pittsburgh, as long as the top 4 and top 6 are healthy and rakell finds his form again he really doesn’t need to make a splash, just role players. Meaning not spending a 1st.


Dude, they are next to last in their division, 14th in the east, with the 29th powerplay in the league. You are delusional.
Dec. 11, 2023 at 11:03 p.m.
#17
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pens1991
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Quoting: jpsnow13
Dude, they are next to last in their division, 14th in the east, with the 29th powerplay in the league. You are delusional.


They're 10th in 5v5 xGoals (they were 5th but the last week of injuries has crushed that), 10th in PK, 3rd in combined SV%, 6th in combined GAA.

The powerplay is quite literally holding them back. 5 1 goal losses in their last 10 games (call it six given FLA won 3-1 on an empty netter). They have a league avg PP and they're adding call it 4-5 pts.

They're 7 pts out of 3rd in the metro with 56 games left. The Flyers and Islanders are currently in 2nd and 3rd in the metro while the caps hold the last wildcard spots. 3 teams that no one really had high expectations for to start the season.

Division is very open.
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Dec. 11, 2023 at 11:11 p.m.
#18
DNP1932
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Quoting: jpsnow13
Dude, they are next to last in their division, 14th in the east, with the 29th powerplay in the league. You are delusional.


Yeah that’s what happens when you have 4 injuries on a team that has no depth plus the slow start, in terms of the roster on paper it’s better. And they were playing a lot better, when healthy they were one of the best team 5v5 and on the pk, literally the PP was all that was keeping them from battling for the 2+3 spot in the metro. I meant to say the roster was better, which is true.
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