Projected Cap Hit Prior To Days Remaining : $83,863,619
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This is just a rough sketch of the idea of the devils making some sort of deal with Van for DeSmith. The idea here is that it's essentially a rental for both teams, without the same long term ramifications as, for example, a deal for Gibson.
For Vancouver, you get a player with a lower cap hit, who is scoring at a much better pace and with a better history in the league, so it's an improvement on the wing for sure. On the other hand, there may be a slight reduction in the quality of backup goalie, but overall VV is not bad, has performed great the past season, and in the context of a backup goalie, should be just fine. Also at the end of the day you only have one more year of his salary after this, and in the worst case, it's probably something that isn't that difficult to get rid of.
For the Devils, this is a rental goalie who, while not a star, should nonetheless be able to put up better numbers than anyone we have - hopefully enough to get us to the playoffs. It isn't a long term solution, but at the same time, it doesn't have the type of long term consequences as, say, a trade for Gibson, which would involve giving up long term assets for a questionable goalie with many years left on his contract. This is low risk in that respect. We depreciate somewhat in terms of losing TT for Kuzmenko, but he has also put up big numbers in the past and so may be worth the flier, and in any event, it's taking from an area of abundance to address an area of need. Here we are not giving up anything of too much long term value and shouldn't be handcuffing us for a future.
Also consider that we have the Hamilton LTIR money for this seaon.
The biggest issue that I see is that Kuzmenko contract for next year. That may be too much for us to take on. But there may be some creative ways to deal with that (I've mentioned them below, but don't let those distract too much). I'd also implore people to consider the alternatives, which usually involve taking on huge contracts for longer term that we would struggle equally to accommodate.
*** This is just a thought, curious to hear feedback on how it could be improved.
The retained salary is just one concept related to the possibility of the Devils laundering Vanacek's contract through a team like Chicago to save 1 mil (for say a 4th or 5th round pick), and thus get a reciprocal retention from Vancouver. This may be important in order to work out the Devils ability to deal with the costs of Kuzmenko next year, when they will, as mentioned, face some serious cap difficulties.
See the other comment, the 1 mil retained on Kuzmenko is conditional on our ability to maybe make a three way trade with a team like chicago to retain some on Vanacek. For purposes of this discussion it could also be ignored.
Easy pass for Canucks.
Kuzmenko and DeSmith are not available.
Toffoli is a better all around player the Kuzemko. Vanecek hasn’t performed as well as demko but you can really slot anyone behind demko and be okay for the most part as demko can play 60 games.
Doesn’t mean he’s not available. Taylor hall didn’t ask for a trade and Boston still moved him to Chicago, things happen it’s a business GMs will do what’s best for their team
Toffoli is a better all around player the Kuzemko. Vanecek hasn’t performed as well as demko but you can really slot anyone behind demko and be okay for the most part as demko can play 60 games.
Easy pass for Canucks.
Kuzmenko and DeSmith are not available.
Fair enough, but why? In TT you get a guy on a 30 goal pace vs a guy with a higher cap hit who may not even hit 20 goals by the seasons end and has another year on his contract, at which point he becomes a UFA anyway? My understanding was that Nucks fans were souring on that deal. If not, then my bad.
Regarding DeSmith, I get it he is a good backup, and if you think Toffoli is not an improvement over Kuzmenko than I guess it wouldn't make sense. But it seems TT is a clear improvement, meanwhile there isn't that much of a drop-off between DeSmith and VV, in the sense that we are talking about a backup goalie, who probably won't be playing in the playoffs or anything.
But I appreciate the feedback, as that's what I wanted: a sense of whether DeSmith is available (Kuzmenko I see as almost a liability to take on)
I think it depends how they look at the TDL. If they are out of a PO spot toffoli is most likely moveable as he is a ufa and probably gets around 6-7 mill. Kuzemko gives them an extra year at a cheaper contract with less commitment than toffoli’s extension.
Especially with mercer and holtz coming up they might not want to commit to an older winger again like they did with palat
I don't like having to retain on Kuzmenko for an extra year
Aggh I shouldn't have even included that. It's contingent on the Devils retaining the same amount on Vanacek (though doing so by going through another team like Chicago). Thus for you it would be a wash in terms of cap hit (VV and Kuzmenko have the same amount of term). I was brainstorming that due to the devils possible need to get creative to lessen the blow of next years contract for Kuzmenko, which may be prohibitive.
Well, I'm just trying to think of a way to salvage the season by adding a goalie without screwing things up for the long term. If there are better options out there, I'm all ears.
Just offer like a 2nd for Desmith if you want him that badly. Or just wait and sign him
Why would they give him up for a 2nd?? If we could pull that off, great, but I don't see it happening. And the reason to not just wait and sign him is the possibility of burning through another season without making the playoffs. if we want to actually make a deep run later, we need to start getting playoff experience in now.
Well, I'm just trying to think of a way to salvage the season by adding a goalie without screwing things up for the long term. If there are better options out there, I'm all ears.
Buy a guy like Stolarz, Nedjelkovic, kahkonen, Mrazek, etc for a 3rd. Take your pick of who you like the most
Why would they give him up for a 2nd?? If we could pull that off, great, but I don't see it happening. And the reason to not just wait and sign him is the possibility of burning through another season without making the playoffs. if we want to actually make a deep run later, we need to start getting playoff experience in now.
No idea. They got him for a 3rd+ getting to dump Pearson. Can't argue it wouldn't be a win for them
Buy a guy like Stolarz, Nedjelkovic, kahkonen, Mrazek, etc for a 3rd. Take your pick of who you like the most
We've gone back and forth before, and you make some valid points. But I maintain that I don't see these teams giving up their goalie for a 3rd, or if they would, the goalie in question wouldn't be worth it. This is a forum for discussing these points, so if you can point me to fans who would be willing to do so fine. Otherwise, it's wishful thinking. If it's possible yes, do that, 100%. But this post exists in the reality of, what if those teams scoff and reject the idea. Then what? That's where this comes in.
i dig it, but im not super stoked on retaining an extra year on kuzy. any way this could be revamped to remove the kuzy retention? like maybe remove the retention from kuzy and toffoli? cap hit change satys the same but van doesnt get a $1,000,000 penalty next seasn
We've gone back and forth before, and you make some valid points. But I maintain that I don't see these teams giving up their goalie for a 3rd, or if they would, the goalie in question wouldn't be worth it. This is a forum for discussing these points, so if you can point me to fans who would be willing to do so fine. Otherwise, it's wishful thinking. If it's possible yes, do that, 100%. But this post exists in the reality of, what if those teams scoff and reject the idea. Then what? That's where this comes in.
Why wouldn’t we be able to get a team’s backup goalie for a 3rd??
“You can’t get a goalie like DeSmith for a 3rd”
Meanwhile DeSmith was literally acquired for a 3rd.
Backup goalies, no matter how they’ve been playing, go for mid round picks historically
i dig it, but im not super stoked on retaining an extra year on kuzy. any way this could be revamped to remove the kuzy retention? like maybe remove the retention from kuzy and toffoli? cap hit change satys the same but van doesnt get a $1,000,000 penalty next seasn
Yah of course, you can ignore the salary retention stuff. I should have been more clear. The retention on Kuzy is based on the idea that we run this trade through a 3rd party team (I mention Chicago) to have them retain the same 1 mil on VV. Both Kuzy and VV have 1 more year after this, so for you guys, the retention is basically a wash. It's just a way to help the devils deal with the cap hit of Kuzy next year. I tried to design it in a way that wouldn't really hurt Vancouver.
But yes, I'd take what you are offering. I'm mostly looking at the overall trade, so fine to put aside the retention aspects of it.
i dig it, but im not super stoked on retaining an extra year on kuzy. any way this could be revamped to remove the kuzy retention? like maybe remove the retention from kuzy and toffoli? cap hit change satys the same but van doesnt get a $1,000,000 penalty next seasn
That would be counterintuitive to NJD if they even did this.
They’d be looking to retain 2 mill on Toff and 1 mill on Kuzmenko in a swap like this. Bc we have cap this year from LTIR, but need space next year.
: $83,863,619
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