i know im not answering your questions, but what i picture guerin doing is nothing of the above, trade maroon and double down on the same groupe of core guys. maybe johanson gets dealt but that its.

i think he will do what every wild gms has.done, try to compete with a meh group of guys who overachieves.

Trade one of Foligno, Zuc or Hartman.

Other than that he'll just run it back with the same core with injuries as an excuse

No, I agree with ya. I think that's the correct answer in terms of realism. None of these are very realistic, but just wanted to toss it out there and get some thoughts.

It's an almost lifeless team these days - they're pretty much unwatchable as is.

I'd guess Guerin dealing his 1st is the only one even remotely possible and it would be a massive mistake. I guess I could see him moving Hartman too but that would still be weird.

This is exactly what he'll do

Well they all have full NMCs, so that isn't just a layup.

In terms of likelihood, I'd almost rank that below Guerin trading the 1st rounder.

hated almost every move/signing he mad this past year.

this team needed cap flexibility the most and he instead commited longterm to a bunch of third liner.

That was my gut too - trading the 1st seems most likely just based on some of the NMCs and whatnot.

I don't think it's likely, but I kinda have a bad feeling that he's gonna try and do something splashy. He's very impulsive.

Yeah just so completely unnecessary to do that before the season unfolds. Just such poor decision making to not even wait a bit.

Counterpoint:

If he *waits* on doing Zuccarello, he's paying him at minimum $6M again or longer-term on said contract, given Zuccarello's points production so far this year and being arguably our best player not named Faber or Rossi. Who're both rookies. On ELC's. $4Mx2 is a perfectly justifiable contract for someone who's there as a placeholder until one of Öhgren, Yurov, Khusnutdinov is ready for the NHL. Which is going to take awhile. It also keeps your franchise cornerstone happy. That's a double win.

That contract could be 10× worse. Easily. If he had chosen to wait.

Hartman was getting $5M+ on the open market. That's not up for debate. That's simple truth. Instead, he's coming in under that mark on a 3 year contract extension. Hate the NMC all you like, but that's S.O.P. for getting the cost down in today's NHL.

The ONLY contract fans have a right to **** about is that Foligno one. And even then he even admitted it was an overpay and that it's one that could of waited. He chose to do it now, because he had gotten the other two done and just wanted to get them all done and have it be done and over with. That's understandable. From a management standpoint and perspective.

It it rash? Maybe.

Or is it just him being proactive? What's the old maxim. Why put off until tomorrow what you can do today.

I get hating on Guerin is the fashionable mindset these days. But there are legitimate reasons and counter arguments for doing what he did, too. It just feels like people are ****ing just to **** these days.

And for the record, the guy has only managed to maintain maximum cap flexibility for the last 4+ years. Don't see people bringing that up. Besides, Zuccarello is gone in two years. Hartman's NMC turns into a M-NTC by year two of his new contract. Foligno's NMC turns into a M-NTC by year 3 of his new contract. So that one doesn't fly.

It depends on what he does with it. If he can use it to land a center with a lot of upside still, I wouldn't call that a mistake if the pick has some protections in case they win the lottery or something. Maybe even a young RHD with potential to step in soon like how Faber has since Spurgeon may very well continue to be injury prone and leave a hole in their roster.

This.

I don't think people understand the job he was handed. He has a boss that won't allow a rebuild, so he has to do what he can with what they have. He inherited the Suter/Parise contracts and the apparent problems they were causing in the locker room. Maybe things are worse if he didn't buy them out, who knows? Who was he magically going to get to replace Hartman and Zuccarello that cost less and are either the same or better players? I can agree the Foligno deal seems like a mistake, but I also don't know if he's really truly one of those glue guys you want in the locker room so he's worth it. I'd like to think he could have signed him for less money and term, but again, who knows.

The Wild need upside. No one who's actually on target to hit their upside gets traded for a pick. Faber was a lucky find who everyone thought would be a run of the mill 2nd pair player at the time of the trade, You don't rely on doing that again. The Wild are not in any hurry to compete, and with Ek, Rossi and possibly Yurov, a C isn't even that dire a need anymore.

It just makes no sense to trade it when you can find a similar player with potentially more upside and control by using it in the draft.

It's not just fashionable if there are reasons to criticize, of which there are plenty. What might be worse is people who excuse his mistakes because "people are being mean to Guerin".

He makes bad decisions, the team he's built isn't very good. There's more reason to criticize him than praise him. Saying things like "well who was he going to get instead" isn't a defense of a guy who can't build a winning team. "He's doing his best" - maybe, but his best isn't very good. Why are Wild fans the only fanbase that gives full credit for trying hard? Maybe that's why Leipold won't rebuild? He doesn't have to. He still turns a profit by being entirely mediocre because Wild fans have mediocre expectations.

This is his 5th season as GM. At a certain point it has to stop being "the job he was handed", and become "the job he has done".

The 1st being dealt is the only one that has a chance of happening. I'll put the caveat on it that it is a draft day deal where he wither moves up or down in the draft.

Spurgeon is negative value at his full cap hit. He's a 2nd pair, PP2, injury prone, 35 yo with term, RD, that is useless in the Playoffs.

Kap only gets traded if he demands a trade. GMBG is out of a job if this happens.

The NMCs void all trades. Zucc might take one if Kap is traded, but that's it.

Rossi is the only one listed that might be traded, but he won't get the return needed to make it happen (similar to Dumba last year). He's been decent this year, but not good enough to for any team to pay a premium to get him.

Duhaime, Bogo, and Maroon get traded at the TDL for mid to late round picks. MAF and Goli could be moved, but I think they are content to just ride out their retirement season in MN.

You'll note nowhere in there did I say he hasn't made mistakes. I just don't think those mistakes are "fire him immediately" level of bad, especially when he's made some moves that have worked out quite well. Thankfully fan outrage doesn't play much of an effect on a team's decision making so it just ends up being venting to feel better. I get it, I do it too.

As for the job he was handed, that will continue to be a thing until we're past where Parise and Suter's deals haven't influenced his decision making. Him being the GM this long doesn't magically free him from the problems those contracts created that were going to influence what he could and couldn't do. I'll criticize the moves I don't like by their own merits, but I'm also not blind to the big picture on some of what he might be trying to do because of the situation the team's cap is in.

The cap situation he's in is his own doing, and you're seemingly mostly blind to it already.

The buyouts were a decision he made, he didn't have to, the existence of the contracts didn't force it, it's a choice he made. He doesn't get a pass for them.

GMBG should be fired for not being good overall. He's made a lot of bad moves and the good moves don't offset them. Way too much money, term, and clauses have been given out to players that are bottom of the roster guys.

And if he didn't buy them out, what then? You get $7.5m Parise who isn't even in the league anymore. Suter? The guy who seems to be the Dallas fanbase's favorite scapegoat? He wasn't very good for Minnesota for a looong time. He was carried by Spurgeon and wasn't good enough like Brodin is to cover up for Dumba's defensive mistakes. That's not a knock against his abilities btw, he was simply never the same player after that ankle injury. And that's ignoring the supposed locker room cancers they were. With or without them, there isn't a GM that would have been able to make that work.

Again, I don't think Guerin has a perfect record. I just think any GM who came in was going to be handcuffed for another year after this and even then, Leipold apparently demands playoffs so bottoming out and going through a proper rebuild isn't in the cards either so while I might not be a fan of every move, I at least understand he's working within a very narrow set of options he can navigate.

There were plenty of other avenues he could have taken with those contracts. If the one he took was your favorite that's fine, but you can't give him a pass because of the situation he chose to put himself in. If you think we're in a bad situation right now with the buyouts, it's because Guerin made the decision, as the GM, to buy those contracts out.

I think we're in a bad situation that could have been worse had they either stayed or worse, retired. Unfortunately, I don't think there was a way to make those work without them developing a bad skin rash because apparently that's the only way you avoid recapture penalties in the NHL on those old front loaded deals.

You keep saying I'm giving him a pass. I'm not. I just don't think he's done anything bad enough to get fired just yet. I don't like the Foligno extension. I absolutely love the JEEK extension. I don't like the Spurgeon extension (although I at least understand this one even if I don't like it). I love the Fiala for Faber/1st round pick trade. I don't like the NMC Goligoski got that made it impossible to get rid of him. I like the contracts he's gotten Hartman signed to so far. I like the extension he gave Boldy, I think it will look like a genius move in a couple years. I like the trade of Talbot for Gustavsson. I like the Brodin extension even if I think that one has a good chance of ending poorly. I guess I just don't see a $6m cap hit that can be traded at that point as being this huge problem to worry about though. I don't like drafting Stramel with last year's 1st round pick but overall I've generally liked who they've drafted under him and it sounds like they've got a good prospect pool with reason for optimism in the next few years. They're prospects though, so who knows. Maybe Stramel turns into stud player while Yurov and Ohgren are busts.

He's done more good than bad in my eyes and I think his approach is going to rely on some of these draft picks panning out before we really get to judge his body of work. Rossi is finally looking like a player, let's see if someone else steps up next year.

I am talking about a pass for the cap situation. You keep saying it's a bad situation, he's handcuffed by it, etc, and saying it's hard to really judge him and we have to wait. That's giving him a pass for the dead cap he created. You don't give him a pass because of it. It factors into his performance and it'll factor into his legacy. If the team is bad because of the dead cap, that's a knock on Guerin. That's a criticism of him. That's not something that positively affects his tenure as the GM here.

GM's inherit bad contracts all the time, he's the only one who's ever bought them out to the tune of 15m in completely dead cap space. That's not something he just gets a pass for. That is a decision he made and deserves criticism for.

Again, you may think it was the best choice, but you can't sit here and continue to tell me it's a bad situation and it's not fair to him when it was him that created it. If it's as bad as you keep saying it is, Guerin gets criticized for it, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt for it.

Suter buyout was awful. He's better and cheaper than his direct replacement of Goli. I'd still take him on the team over any of Goli, Merrill, and Middleton. He'd be less of a cap hit that the buyout + any of their contracts too.

Parise buyout was just as bad. He's the perfect LTI-Retired candidate (back). He's not worth the $7.5m cap hit, but he's worth more than it cost to replace him in the lineup. If he didn't want to play this year that is an extra $7.5m in cap space MN would have to play with. Parise still scored 20g last year from a bottom-6 role last year.

It's not just the 4 years of pain with the buyouts, there is still 4 years after that of $1.67m in dead cap. The buyouts were just unnecessary moves that were made. The Wild still makes the Playoffs the last 2 years and this year is not any worse with them being on the team.

The narrow list of options are of his own making. Fenton set team to just need a goalie and a top-6 center to go along with JEE and there was plenty of cap space. Spurgeon's albatross deal ate up a bunch of that cap.