I'm sorry friend, but I have to say it, this is an overpay. Take out Nemec and Fitzgerald may be more comfortable, but still, as others have pointed out, trades for starting goaltenders have never traditionally included two 1st round picks plus the usual top prospect and a return goaltender. A Devils fan, months back, it was an amazing post, a response to a Saros to NJD proposal I made, all of the trades for guys like Curtis Joseph, Ryan Miller, etc etc etc over the last few decades, at the times they were highly valued still, and the returns were all below this level, for every single one.

I guess I'm playing .. Devil's advocate here ..

With no retention you’re probably looking at max a 1st and a prospect/young player (not one on the level of Nemec or Holtz though)

Even with retention there’s zero chance you’re getting Nemec

For no retention, the Flames ought to be asking 2024 1st, Mercer, and a B sort of prospect, maybe one of their goalies like Schmid? Nemec is off the table, yes, so it comes down to the two young forwards, and the Flames will ask for Mercer, the Devils will say Holtz, it won't be good enough for either side, and they'll call it a day.

For not retention the devils won’t put up holtz and a 1st. Also if your GM were to turn down holtz+1st+ for an unretained Markstrom he should be fired the next day, as should Fitzgerald for offering it

With no retention, Flames GM already accepted Holtz alone.

Source? Actually just curious, as I haven't heard anything myself about the failed deal..

Friedman, LeBrun, Seravalli and a couple of others had reported on it after it failed the first time. John MacKinnon, I think. Devils Hockey Now reporter (who has gotten a few things wrong in past). Eric Francis has reported on the NTC…he had asked Markstrom before all this and said he had not been asked to waive as of Thursday afternoon (last week). He then went on radio show a couple days later and said Markstrom had likely waived to NJD.

A number of them basically said it was around Markstrom for Holtz…and that retention (and how much compensation NJD was paying for that retention) being the point of disagreement. Some people seemed to think it included Vanacek, some did not. One place said there were no picks…no one else said anything about picks.

A lot of the timelines front different sources did not line up. So it’s hard to know what was true and what was not.

My guess is that there were discussions…they didn’t see a match…and moved on. Standard business for GMs.

Then over last day and a half, there has been some talk about talks starting again. It appears to most come from two websites (HFBoards and Calgary Puck) and a few users that claim to be plugged in (I don’t know anything about them….but it sounds like some Flames fans trust them). But these new rumors seem to be attached to a MUCH larger return from NJD. Some have speculated that it means Markstrom and Hanifin are in a package. Some have just said Devils GM got desperate and increased his side considerably. But none of the known reporters have said anything about new talks…other than a blurb from LeBrun this morning that said (paraphrasing), “Devils still looking for goalie, things not dead with Calgary and they are also engaged with Nashville, Anaheim, others”.

Hope that helps.

It does, thank you! I've not read into that deal much, only that it got to the waiving NMC stage but died, and the last I bothered to check, it was "we don't know why yet". Appreciate the very detailed answer

I’ve read a lot of it. Seems like even the Calgary forum “sources” haven’t said anything about a potential return. From what I can see all of that is speculation from an echo chamber of flames fans.

From what I can see on there:
-2-3 people claim with insider information that something will happen/is imminent
-Calgary fans start speculating about return
Those get bundled together into
“Insider claims this is return for Markstrom”

I also get told a lot “you can’t just get these type of goalies for free”, about, checks notes, Markstrom and Ullmark, 2 goalies acquired for free as UFAs.

That's nothing but speculation by writers and TV talking heads who are paid to guess and stir the pot. Seravelli and Friedman saying "I think" or Francis saying "likely waived" (he probably only said that because he isn't quite sure yet what to make of all the wild unfounded rumors that are being spread the last few days) doesn't confirm anything as fact yet a whole lot of others are claiming it does.

Yeah, I suppose I am thinking much the same. While enough there to think the two sides spoke about it…seems more unlikely now that anything comes of it. Appears NJD are focusing elsewhere now.

Folks, and since Mox quoted NHLfan, he'll see it too, the gist of my next point is that the Devils and Flames are not done talking. Devils reported to be talking to Calgary, Anaheim and Nashville still. So let's put a truce in place and wait for more details

P.s. NHLfan10506, I think it was you that made that goalie post I mentioned in my first response here wasn't it. Cheers haha.