its just that easy right?

to convince those top UFAs to sign in a high tax market on a rebuilding team, you'll have to overpay big time.

A 1st for Granlund? Why would Dallas do that?

Move to California, we'll tax you into oblivion and won't stop criminals.

okay don't feed into that political crap. california is an awesome place to live. but if you're making close to 8 figures a year and have a limited earning window, it's not where you want to be. you want to be in florida, which is too bad, because florida is a horrible place, and 60% of the adult population reads at a 2nd grade level.

Cup run for DAL, locked in for another year so not just a deadline acquisition, has been super crafty/hard-working/playing well/efficient, and a big bright spot in an otherwise dark season for SJ. 2nd line center but can play wing too, he'd be a big acquisition at a cost-controlled 2.5mil with half-retention. Plus the Finnish connections.

I feel like high tax markets are a bit over played, I think it matters more the tweeners, SJ hasn’t had a problem landing big fish. These are the exact contracts grier said he wont sign tho

it's really not.

when was the last time a UFA came to san jose at a reasonable price?

I think most of their big contracts recently have been overpays. Couture, Hertl, Kane, Karlsson - sure all seemed like overpays at the time of the signing. If Tampa, Boston, and Dallas are offering Hanifin $7.5M I think the Sharks need to offer at least $9M.

Oh honey

The sharks havent been good in a long time. Most big contracts being overpays is recency bias except in the case of hertl and probably vlasic although you could argue he earned it because of his previous deal. Hard for a dog water team to pull big names. I would still maintain that if hertl had the proper support he would be well worth the contract… but our best winger is rookie eklund
*Edit
Barbie resigned at a good price but he isnt a huge name and same with Benning and Burroughs and Sturm

i don't know who barbie is. how about we just use the players name?

vlasic earned his ticket. there's just some markets where teams are going to have to pay more. it's not fair. i think the league should calculate the cap hit based on post tax income. it just is what it is.

Yes of course, I was just saying the taxes generally dont matter as much as a teams situation. It is a factor but not a super important one imo. SJ hasn’t had an issue with it in the past and i wouldnt anticipate it in the future. Also using a players nickname when its how the team almost always refers to him is perfectly fine for example Barbie = Barabonov or slippery pete = eklund.

The Pens were roasted (rightfully so) for trading a 2nd for Granlund. He isn't good. At 2.5MM, he still isn't good. He might fetch a 3rd, if someone is desperate.

What's political? California has lost nearly a million people in the last 3 years. What demographic were they? High income (7 figures) middle income (high 6 figures) and low income (low 6 figures). Housing isn't affordable for working class.

California has more violent crime than Florida and it has the most retail theft in the country.

Also, best not to throw stones in a glass house. Florida has the 3rd worst literacy percentage in the US at 80.3%. The worst state, you guessed it, California with a whopping 76.9%. California has some of the worst schools in the US (comparatively). They are top ten in taxing but only put 3% of tax funding into their public education system.

The only good things about the whole state are the weather in the southwest and the forests in the northeast.

None of that is political. Just objective facts. Well, the ending is a preference of mine based on personal ideal temperatures and my like of arboreal landscapes.

To wrap it back to hockey, unless you're dramatically overpaid, why would anyone go to a place that bad?

i don't live in california, these are just my observations on the two places. obviously california is massive so there are going to be pockets that bring down averages. but at least they have some world class colleges and some, for lack of a better term, "smart areas." Florida doesn't have any of that.

and i'm saying you're wrong. taxes matter a lot.

the nicknames are usually pretty stupid, especially on a forum like this where there are folks from all fanbases. I'm not looking at san jose's roster to figure out who you're talking about, just use their name. We're not friends with the guys for crying out loud. Of course there are some that are pretty universal at this point - ovi, pasta etc, but barbie? cmon.

As someone who was offered a scholarship to one of those "world class colleges", I am very glad I passed. College outside of STEM is a gigantic waste of money. It is only anecdotal but my time visiting Florida was 1000% better than any of the cities I've been to in California. From what I've seen, that place is awful.

Now, for NHL guys, they won't see any of that. They make 10 - 100x of my salary so they probably won't see beyond country clubs and rich areas. But still, taxes are brutal.

i'll agree college has kind of devolved. unless you're a lawyer, doctor, accountant, scientist etc, it isn't really needed. Florida is an absolute pit though. it's fun for two weeks until you realize its devoid of intelligence. the only folks down there with half a vocabulary are new englanders that got sick of the snow.

If you'd actually watched him play this season with the Sharks, you'd know that he's been excellent even against top competition and has absolutely been a pleasant bright spot this season.

Granlund's legit good. He was God-awful with the Pens, yes, but he's flipped an absolute switch this season.

I feel like a lot of these prices are optimistic.

Duclair MIGHT be able to get a 2nd if a bidding war starts with how teams overpay at the TDL, but for that price it's almost certainly using our final retention slot. I also think if any team's going to give up that price for a rental it's unlikely to be Philly. I know they're in a playoff position but they were not expected to be a playoff team yet so I don't see them spending high picks for rentals.

Barbie for a 2nd is extremely optimistic considering the season he's had. I know there are mitigating circumstances with the broken finger, covid, and how bad the entire team has been, but he hasn't looked good and hasn't put up points. Last season I could've seen it...there was even a mock draft on the Athletic where someone traded their 1st (IIRC it was pick 31 but the pick had been flipped multiple times so I forget who the team was) for him on draft day. This season I think a 3rd is probably the high end with a 4th being more likely.



Granny's been good this year but the fact that he was so bad he needed to be sent away largely as a cap dump aspect of a trade likely drives down his trade value.



I've been calling Eklund "Ni!" I'm sure nobody will know who I'm talking about when I refer to him as that so in discussions I try to refer to him either by his full name or a more common nickname. I heard some people calling him Ekky and started thinking about Monty Python and the Holy Grail. The Knights who Say "Ni" became the Knights who say "Ekke Ekke Ekke Ekke Ptang Zoo Boing." Yes, I'm a nerd.

Maybe. I was only there for a bit. The northern part of Florida is basically Georgia which is full of interesting people (some good, some bad) and the southern part is very Cuban / Latin which has it's own fun (some good, some bad).

All of that said, I've also met New Englanders who I am convinced were not speaking a dialect of English that was from the past 3 centuries. I think every region has good and bad, it's just the closer you get to that East Coast / West Coast mindset, the more disconnect you get.

Back to hockey, I'm sure the NHLers would much prefer Florida and their 0% income tax. I know I would.

To use this ACGM, Guentzel would make 4.65MM per (37% Federal Income Tax, 14% State) after taxes in CA.
Th e same contract in FL, and he would get 6.1MM. That's a difference of 1.35MM per year or 9.45MM over the contract. Which, to your credit, is basically what you said that started this conversation.

By what metric are you referring. All the stats I can see show him as a below average player even among his peers on the Sharks.
(All stats 5v5, all comparisons are vs forwards with 500+ min)

Expected Goals per 60: 0.54 (3rd worst on SJ, 11th percentile)
Goals per 60: 0.39 (3rd worst on SJ, 9th%)
Points per 60: 1.38 (2nd best on SJ, 26th%)
Faceoff win: 49.1% (2nd best on SJ, 62nd%)
Corsi: 41% (Tied worst on SJ, 4th%)
Expected Goals against per 60: 3.42 (2nd worst on SJ, 0th%)
Shooting Talent Above Average: -4% (4th worst on SJ, 31st%)
Created xgoals: 4.5 (2nd worst on SJ, 5th%)

All of the individual stats above are very similar to his career numbers and numbers with Pit last year.

His PP numbers are also not good, though they are better than with Pit last year.

Granlund appears to be a worse version on Monahan, who did (surprisingly) net a 1st. So it is possible someone will overpay but based on his stats, a 3rd would be an overpayment for Granlund.

Side note, great username. One of the best on this site.

I mean, I am not just pulling my story out of thin air, this is what a lot of the national reporters say… and the history of the sharks. Omg im sorry officer i didn’t know you were the nickname police. U should also get the sharks admin, and their beat reporters, and their broadcasters. Let’s not sit here and act like hockey nicknames aren’t any more than adding a y sound onto most peoples names lmao super cerebral stuff. nicknames aren’t only for the homies smh.

Appreciate it 👍🏻

Also, those stats are surprising. But I was arguing more so in favor of Granlund's zone entries and puck possession strengths. I just checked his RAPM chart and he's slightly above average in terms of his impact in the offensive and neutral zones, so that checks out, though I still expected it to be higher.

It's worth noting that he's gotten better as the season progressed. He was exactly the no-show terrible player I expected from him for the first 15-20 games of the season, but he lit a switch and has been great since then, at least by the eye test.

In sum, a 1st is probably a stretch, but a 3rd at 2.5mil for another year locked in at that value I think is too low too. A middle-ground late 2nd rounder seems reasonable to expect from a depth-depleted team like COL who could use him, or DAL.

I could see a conditional 2nd. Especially if someone was in strong need like Col.

There I could agree.