Idk man you need a shakeup, and you are not getting rid of Matthews, Nylander obviously as you just re-signed them. But without marner you have another 10m to spread around the lineup to make yourselves more balanced. He disappears in the playoffs and with that 10m I garuntee you still make the playoffs.

Do you really want to sign marner to a 12x8 which is what he is going to want?

Taking the 20m from Tavares and marker and spreading it around the lineup, finding a true top d man, I think the leafs would be much better off.

Can we also stop trading Liljegren? He's a top 4 defenceman on a playoff team. He's the 2nd best defenceman on the Leafs. He's not a problem.

This is the hope of all non leaf fans.

I am not against trading Marner. Read my description, trading Marner means we need an adequate replacement for his offense plus a top end defenseman. Marner is completely worth the money as with his overall playoff performance of 50 points in 55 games and last year 14 points in 11 games. This year you can tell his mobility is still hampered by the ankle. His value is there 95+ points a year, but he is a UFA in a year and with a full no move clause. He then gets to handpick where he goes. Look at Tarasenko and what he got Ottawa by saying I will only go to Florida. Tarasenko should have at a minimum got a 2nd rounder and a good prospect.

This hurts the value Toronto can extract. I get it, it is hard to continue with the core but replacing is just as hard or harder. Toronto had the perfect chance to extract value after they lost to Montreal but did not. Ditto to when they lost to Tampa. Now it is getting late. Also the core will already change.
After this next year both Marner and Tavares are UFA. I would tell Tavares to sign at around 4 million of leaves. That clears 7 million in cap, and with the cap expected to rise another 4 million to around 91 will help better balance the roster. Marner at 12 million is only just over a million more than he is making now. It's barely an increase and very easy to stomach when you fact that the salary cap is rising and all players and their agents go by cap percentage. A player like Marner, his agent will always look to command around 13% of the cap when you look at comparables and when they signed.

The issue with all the cap issues rises when Dubas' signed Tavares to his 11 million. That created a new cap structure that the agents new they could extra by simply saying look Marner and Matthews are both better than Tavares and thus their cap percentage deserves to be similar.

I agree, I am merely looking at different options. This idea gives a good young defenseman that did very well in Arizona now Utah.
Liljegren is still fairly young and many defensemen ripen around around age 27 so Liljegren still has a ceiling to potentially reach. At around 2.9 million that is a good number for him.
My trade gave an option, but I would also hate to trade Liljegren unless we got another very good defender in return.

He's only really the second RD on the team because we don't have one. He's not good against top comp which is why he can't be trusted to play with Mo and help bail out his defensive collapses. His metrics are average across the board and isn't the greatest. Likely reached his peak by now.

I'm not opposed to moving him unless it's for an UPGRADE. Lateral moves don't help. This one is a lateral move.

Ideally, he's a good 3RD on a team with an actual top 4 not comprised of bottom feeding dmen.

Agreed. I do believe he can still reach his ceiling and his advanced metrics has actually been very positive. For a contract many think about 2.9 million. If Liljegren stays as he is, that is a very good contract for him. Being 25 and how many defenseman don't reach ceiling til about 27 shows a good reason to keep. That being said, changes and new thoughts are needed and as you pointed out a lateral move where we get a good young defenseman back is smart.
I am not against trading anyone on the roster and would approach the off-season like that but their are certain players where trading does not seem realistic.

Matthews, Marner, Mo, Tavares. Woll. (and our prospects)

That's it. Everyone else is fair game. If we lose this series clear the house.

He's 24 and has a coach that wants to scape goat him constantly. He's a good player and will get better. Gotta keep him.

Even then I view as fair game problem is, Matthews needs an upgrade. Then who Mcdavid, ummm yep Matthews stays. Reilly, who will give an defense upgrade for him... Yep probably stays. Marner the odds of extracting the value needed then yea probably stays. Nylander was signed to a deal that all GMs agreed was on par with what they would sign making him a potential deal but its he same reason as Marner where the odds of extracting the value we need is slim.
So yea it makes it hard to just blow it up and clear the house when you think that ownership will continue to rack in the profits. They lose this series, I can see Keefe and all coaching purged. Shanahan I can see staying but only for 1 year to see if he along with Treliving can right the ship as shanahan just signed Treliving. But both will be on the hot seat big time. Tavares will be offered a take it of leave it deal that is low. Woll, I don't see a better young goalie whom we can extract for him and thus yea we try him as our goalie and I am all for it. I believe he struggled because it is hard to come back from a high ankle sprain but his overall play has consistently been very solid.
It's too bad we drafted Scott instead of Swayman but no regrets before the injuries it was all woll and Scott for us in the minor leagues proving they were both great prospects. Scott just couldnt overcome him injuries. There was no way to predict the career paths of both goalies but man what could a been.

He plays a fairly low role difficulty. Can't handle top comp and isn't really great at anything. At 25* probably reached his peak. If we can move him for an actual upgrade, sure.

Willy has NMC, and just signed an 8 year extension.
First, series isn’t over so 🤞.
Second, core 4 were all given NMC (whether we like it or not); hard to imagine any of them waiving unless it was to a preferred destination and those teams probably don’t have cap space to absorb $10+M.
So, no major changes to roster (maybe coaching staff?) until following year when JT & Marner deals expire and there should be tons of flexibility with young players on elc’s ready to make team - Cowan, Minten, Grebyonkin, Niemela, Hildeby, etc).

Plays the 2nd most of all the teams blueliners. He's a good player. The Liljegren hate is as bad as the Marner hate

I left out Willy as a typo. Obviously. he's not going. I MEANT to say Marner.

Yeah, the series isn't over, but it should be. Even if by some grace of the hockey gods we win the next two, we are getting slaughtered against Florida. We do not have a team built for the playoffs.

What chronically online people on CF seem to forget is that players can waive NMC's. There is a potential world where Tree refuses to extend Marner and finds a way to get him to waive. Even if we retain, it frees some space to build a better D core and maybe get a 1A/B to help Woll.

My patience with Marner's saga in Toronto is over. I've seen enough of this baby.

I think you have the wrong assumption. Not every time a player is criticized is it "hate". I don't "hate" Lilly. He just doesn't do anything special. His QoC is rather low and for what he outputs is pretty mid. Not a good net front or corner presence and is just an average defender.

We need upgrades on the right side, as we have the past what, 5-6 years? It's not hate, lol. It's refusing to run it back with the same guys year after year and NOTHING happening.

I wouldn't mind keeping Lily and lowering his ice time if it means we can get an actual top 4 built.

I think the core 3 stays, J.T. will not be resigned as hopefully Trev does what Dubas never did, leave roster spots for rookies.

Minten and Cowen should be ready to replace J.T. by 2025-26.

Thanks for explaining things Howie Meeker; what a crock 😂.
Nobody really cares what you think or what you’ve had enough of; you’re entitled to your opinion of course but just very unlikely that any player with a full NMC magically waives it.
The core of the team is set until 25-26 season. You can focus your hate on Marner all you want but he alone is not the reason we are losing this series or past series. He’s part of the problem but all of the core pieces (+ coaching staff) have underperformed at critical points in key playoff games.

Okay, uh, clearly I've struck a nerve? If you don't care, then don't replay to me?

Struck a nerve 😂; ignorance wrapped up as informed opinion is hilarious. Keep ‘em coming

Are you good man? I stated my opinion because you replied to me and you started throwing a fit about how nobody cares what I think lmao.

Have a glass of water, get some fresh air. It'll be alright unc

" ignorance wrapped up as informed opinion is hilarious."
that is crazy irony

Think you threw the fit bud

If you don't care what I think then stop replying to me. No clue why you did in the first place.

He's had crazy good analytics every year but this one. He needs to face tougher competition to get better at it. He needs to be tested.

Any time Keefe puts him against top comp the results are never good. That's why he rarely EVER plays with Mo despite Mo desperately needing a good RD partner.

He actually plays with Mo alot. Whenever there is an offensive zone faceoff. Liljegren is on the right. For defensive zone and other situations it's Lybushkin