Ekman-Larsson is a LD but I’m not sure if he’d be able to play on his off side. Don’t think the value is terrible on the ARI trade leafs might have to add a pick or another prospect to seal the deal. Honestly if the leafs are able to acquire Keller I’d keep him. Kid looks like he’ll be a 80+ point player especially playing with Tavares. But if you want Tkachuk I think Keller for Tkachuk 1for1 could work.

I know that isn't EOL normal side, I was just putting him there for now. As for Keller I was thinking the same thing I just didn't know if people shared my enthusiasm for Keller. The big reason for Tkachuk is to add back some of the grit we lost from losing Leo and Matt, but also reuniting that line that was silly in the O. As for the slight over pay, its because the Flames arent shopping him, so I thought we would have to give up more to wrestle him away.

The Matthews line was the best in the league last year based on goal differential per 60. Why destroy that just to unite a line that worked against 17-year-olds?

The point was more so to save on cap, get a legit stud defender and bring in a line with massive potential. Again, it was just for a fun what if scenario.

To quote my description, "So, I am not saying moving Mathews it smart, or even the right move. My idea behind it is simple, why cap crunch so hard on this core, when we could make it work for us."

Why do you think Matthews is cap crunch and then waste 8.5m on OEL?

You get cap relief for just one year, then you have to pay your kid line. You have about $10m in cap space to pay them, Johnsson, Borgman, Kapanen, Carrick, Sparks and two other guys next year (your roster is 2 players short). I just don't see any advantage here.

The thing I am trying to avoid is tying up 10-12 million on one more player. I would prefer to sign Dvorak, Tkachuk and Nylander for 10-12.

Bringing in OEL is so HOPEFULLY we don't sign on Gardiner for more term/money. We need to get better on the back end, paying that 8.5 now is going to be similar to what we have to pay to either keep Gardiner or fill that hole. Plus Hainsey is coming off the books and Carrick. There is room on our D for this kind of money.

Arizona wins that trade hands down. AM is a proven NHL superstar and is going to be a top 2 center in the league in the next 5 years behind Mcdavid and you wanna throw in gardiner bracco and pickard as well, I wouldnt even trade Matthews for those three straight up.

You have got to be kidding me man.

No possible way you'll get that line under contract for $10-12M. These three, if they're half as successful as you'd need them to be to replace the Matthews line, will command $7-8M each. You can't afford that.

The only type of Dman that makes any sense is a 1 year rental. We have tons of talent in development. These players will be cheaper and fill our needs. We have been doing some very smart drafting and one of the best development programs. Just look at dermott. Wouldn’t mind a couple more guys like that shoring up our blue line.

Not long term, but on bridge deals. Dvorack you could steal I think, and Tkachuck in my opinion doesn't command more than 5 on a long term contract, so a bridge you should be able to get reasonable.

By the way for the most part I have enjoyed the dialogue going back and forth. This is why doing this can be enjoyable, someone suggests something and we debate it. Thank you for people being good and fun about this, I have really enjoyed the banter.

I agree, again I was more so looking at this for the fun of it. There are better moves to make, I just wanted some fun discussion.

Here is my take on this, you just don't move Matthews.

The only conceivable trade that I would consider would be Matthews + a 2nd or 1st for McDavid.

I am sure Oiler fans will lose their mind over that but just wait a second and hear me out.

Matthews is a 20 year old generational talent who could be the best goal scorer in the game. At least the best at even strength. There are a lot of stats to prove this. McDavid is a 21 year old generational talent who is the best offensive player in hockey. I think most would give McDavid the edge as the better player so that is why TO gives an extra asset but they are not that far off in value that it would be anything more than Matthews + something for McDavid.

Any other trade you make is a bad one and this is why.

Matthews is a generational franchise centre that can dominate the game like few others, unless you are getting similar return you are losing the trade by a wide margin. Clayton Keller looks like a good player, OEL is one of the top 5 best defenceman left handed defenceman and Dvorak is a decent depth guy. None of those are as valuable as a generational franchise centre. When talking about the best players in the game, it starts with centres and then moves outwards. Crosby and McDavid are the tops and then a collection of super elite centres and then defence and goalies. Soon it'll be Matthews and McDavid listed as the two best in the game. That makes it so hard to trade someone like that, because you are trading the ultimate prize for a collection lesser things where the sum of those lesser things still adds up to less than what we currently have.

Alright man! Yes, okay this is actually the first comment I read where I haven't been thinking in the back of my mind what I could change to make it work.

I agree with your comments on Mathews. I guess my "concern" with the leafs is doing a Chicago and tying up too much cap in two players.

Pens won two cups in a row and they did it because they're paying Malkin and Crosby pennies on the dollar. I am just scared we are going to be stuck because of JT.

I don't think moving Mathews is the answer, but another trade that came to mind, and keep in mind I am one of his biggest fans and think the world of him. But what about :

Toronto: Mathews + Carrick
Winnipeg: Scheifele + Trouba.
(add any other additional assets to make it work)

Mark is a freak and is only costing the Jets 6.125. Why pay Mathews/JT a combined 20 million or more, when you could get a Mark?

Thoughts?

Teams shouldn't be worried about paying their stars star money. Teams should be worried about paying support guys too much money. Thats where you get in deep trouble.

The problem in Chicago is that Kane and Toews got their money when they were leaving their prime (JT is in somewhat a similar boat but he's a different player), they won their cups on cheap deals where management surrounded them with talent that they paid too much. So when the big contract hit the books it caused the team to flounder because trading the bad deals they had was extremely costly (Kruger etc).

Toronto has a very unique position where they can lock up their elite core for long term deals that provide cost certainty and then they can rotate the support guys in and out of the club. Toronto spends more money on developing players than some teams spend on their entire budgets, this will provide a steady supply of cheaper depth that they can use to always surround the big guys with talent.

If Kapanen scores enough to warrant a big raise next year, we can trade him for cheaper and younger assets and bring up Engval or Bracco or whoever else is ready to make the jump. Or they can keep finding guys like Tyler Ennis who will come here for super cheap hoping to play with our stars and earn a big deal the year after.

Either way the point I'm trying to make is paying stars is never a problem, they deserve the money they make. (I'll get into when they should make that money in a second) Stay away from loyalty driven bad deals and you can be great the whole time your core is in their prime.

Now onto what constitutes a players prime. Its an accepted falsehood that a players prime is 28-33, there is literally no proof of this. Statistically speaking players have their best season production wise around their 24 year old year, then they'll hover around there until they hit 30 at which time they start declining. There are of course outliers but using the average makes the most sense. So if we use that information, then a player should get their big 8 year deal when they are coming off their ELC or as close to that as possible. This is also why I am bitterly against a bridge deal for star players. Sure you can pay Nylander less if you bridge him but then you're spending way more if he progresses at all which seems like a safe bet since he was a better player last year than the year before (His stats should him as an unlucky 60 point man, he should have scored over 70 points), then his big 8 year deal after the bridge will be much higher than it would be now and that deal would also stretch into his early 30's when we can expect some signs of a decline.

So what makes the most sense for Toronto's rebuild (We are still in the build until Matthews, Marner and Nylander get their deals.) is to get that coveted long term cost certainty that allows you to know with concrete certainty that you have a set amount of dollars to spend and don't have to worry about finding those elite pieces to get you over the top. We just need to support this core in getting over the top, the other pieces are just that, pieces not key cogs.

So with all of that in mind, Matthews is as untouchable as they come, only a deal for McDavid could make sense since its a generational centre for a generational centre but both teams are happy with what they have, why even bother making a move.

I agree, 100%. I actually cant dispute any of that. Not even for the fun of it.

So, moving forward what do you think is Torontos move? Move a contract? Wait for another UFA? Go after that #1 RHD? Stay the course?

Personally I thought the right move was stay the course until they brought in JT. I dont like how we are (or what feels like) thrust into a win now mode. I wish we were just a little more patient. I know if a JT comes around you just have to go for it, but I would have liked to see Toronto shore up that D first, because adding to an already stacked forward roster.

Also, do you buy into this "Freddy is an issue rhetoric", or do you think thats foolish?

I hear what you are saying but I'll counter with this, why are we in win now mode? Is that the reality? Or are we in the "Win now and for the next 7-8 years" mode?

The way I see things bringing in JT gives you an elite franchise centre who will take a tonne of pressure off the core that is poised to be at the top of the league for the entirety of his contract.

What would I do about the Defence? Nothing right now, maybe trade for Myers in Winnipeg at the cost of Jake Gardiner. Maybe make an addition at the trade deadline.

But there is no pressure to do anything beyond that, this team will be an elite club in the NHL, barring any significant injury. There are a few young players coming in the near future who will help, I think Liljegren for example is a guy who will become a top pairing guy in the not too distant future. Either way I'm not worried because the problems they'll have are not even close to as big as other teams.

Toronto will have 4 elite offensive weapons locked up for the next 7 years at least. They have 2 franchise centres for the next 7 years, some teams have been looking for a top line centre for years. Look at Montreal and tell me Toronto has anything to worry about. Look at the blueline Pittsburgh won with 3 years ago and tell me its better than what TO has right now. I'm not worried at all.

Just sit back and enjoy the ride, just don't get too attached to depth players, they'll rotate in and out of the lineup each year.

Fair point, I guess as a leafs fan I am trained to expect the worse. I so used to everything falling apart, it feels like it could happen any second.

Its an irrational fear that has been conditioned into us unfortunately but I truly believe this is a winning team and they'll have more than 1 chance over the near future.

I hope we get to celebrate soon. Haha.

Im looking through the stats of the Marlies and was looking at Andrew Nielsen. Why is the conversation that Rosen and Borgman are over him in the depth chart. Kid looks really solid and he is a big body.

He's very undisciplined in his playing style. Likes to hit but makes poor decisions and gets penalized a lot. He's a decent skater but he's still a project who's time is running out. He was passed over by both Borgman and Rosen (Rosen is the much better player I think but thats a different story). Nielsen will have more opportunities this year and he has to take the next step or he's an AHL lifer.

I haven't seen him play that much honestly, I need to find a way to watch more Marlies games.