Are you serious? Horvat has the same stats and is 3 years younger.

Horvat isn't proven, but you bring up Jost? Come on man.

Have you seen Horvat play?

Your can drive a semi through your arguments even if someone had a hint of the player. Based on your last post, there's no point in debating Horvat because you obviously don't have a clue.

However, I appreciate the debate and the fact that the Avs have built a good young team with lots of potential. I like a lot your players and hope BC boys like Jost do really well. Good luck.

they played the same amount of games and have the same production...or did you not notice that? Thats my whole point. IF they want the same production now they can go out and get Hayes, if they want to wait they potentially have that in Jost already. Horvat is a great player but he is a 2nd line C on a championship team, he isnt a 1C universally across the league sorry thats just the hard truth.

I get it you love your player, but you are putting him on a pedestal that is not on access the league. He is not worth Makar who is considered one of the most dynamic and impact young Dman outside of Dahlin. In what world would you trade him plus the 4th overall? Just look across the league, there is very few players that would command that value, and Horvat isnt even close to that. Benning gets laughed at as soon as he mentions Makar name in any sort of talk for Horvat. What you may want and what you would actually get are 2 different things. No team or trade commands that sort of return.

Makar is a Top Line Defenseman, and the 4th Overall pick for a guy who would be a legitimate 2C.

There is no way we give up a future #1 D and a future #1 C for a middling #1C.

I’m assuming we take Turcotte, Zegras, or Cozens who all project to be top line players. (Not generational, but top line) I will agree with you that Horvat is a #1C, but he is a mid/low tier top line C.

We’d rather just pay Hayes. Your argument is that Horvat is 4 years younger, but your solution is we trade our two youngster studs. Do you see how this is not adding up?

Sign Hayes now and him and Horvat will probably produce similar numbers over the next 3 seasons. At that time hopefully Turcotte can outproduce both.

Not trying to troll but we’re just nowhere close on this deal.

To be clear I’m not arguing that the Avs need to do this deal or that there aren’t other options.

I agree with most of your comments. However, it’s not a given that any of the picks will be equal to or better than Horvat.

I like Makar and agree that he will probably be a top defenseman. I feel the same about Hughes. But neither has done it yet.

Appreciate the feedback

I'm curious as to what those two FO% is in comparison. As well as Minutes played per game. As well as other advanced stats like defensive zone starts etc. Fact of the matter is I am a Canucks fan and agree the Makar + 4OA is steep BUTTTT. To come back to my offer of

Timmins+Jost+4th OA would that get it done. for Horvat + Hutton?

what an overpayment

Not even close to reality!

In Colorado he wouldn't be, so you can't justify giving up Makar, and Byram for a guy who would be playing 2C in Colorado just like he is in Vancouver. He had a solid 61 Points in a full season, under 30 Goals tho, which would help produce, but you can't justify giving up a top prospect, and a Defenseman who is predicted to be on their top line, especially when he is what the Market is looking for RHD. Which makes him even more valuable because RHD are so out of stock right now and everyone is looking for them they are pricy, so you can't expect to see Girard or Makar coming back, maybe Zadorov or Barrie if you want someone, but it wouldn't be Makar.

I get why Avs fans don’t like the deal, but players like Horvat aren’t cheap. He played 1C in Vancouver and against the opposition’s top line and didn’t have any help from his wingers. Your proposal significantly undervalues him

It really doesn't Colorado has to base him on what he would play on the team it doesn't make sense to trade a Prospect that can play Top Pairing minutes for a guy who would be a 2C in Colorado it's not what his skill shows it's what he would be on the team. It doesn't make sense to give up a Top 5 Pick, and a A+ Prospect for a B player. Which he is a B player he can't produce 70+ points like Marner, and other.

I get that for Colorado, but for Vancouver your proposal wouldn’t make sense

This doesn't make sense from Colorado perspective right now. There are 2 teams to a trade and you are only looking at the Vancouver side of things.

I’m may not have been clear, I understand that it doesn’t work for Colorado

LMAO. Hard no on that deal lmao

Counter offer. Horvat and a second for Jost & Barrie. Just out of interest.

That wouldn’t work for Vancouver

I was just thinking Barrie is B.C. born at least and Jost grew up there I believe. Why do you believe it wouldn't work? Not enough? Personally I think in the original trade you are overvaluing Horvat. Whilst he is a decent centre who would be a perfect #2C for the Avs that trade is far too rich for my blood, and I would think most other people's too.

I think it's a basic misalignment between us. My view of Horvat is higher than yours, and I like Makar, but still unproven.

For Vancouver to trade Horvat, the team would need Makar + and I don't think that works for you.

Yep, not a hope in hell. Makar is set to be the most valuable player involved in that trade, and you don't trade a future potential superstar for a #2C. As you say difference of our views of the players. Not saying Horvat isn't good, and he'd be ideal for the Avs #2C but he's not THAT good. It's always good to air and share our views though!