Leafs want no part of that Lucic deal. Also Nylander is not being traded.. and Edmonton would not do that because I think they want to have their 1st.

So basically garbage for Nylander, Yeah Dubas hangs up on Holland there.

8th overall pick for Nylander alone is worth it enough tbh. Remove everybody else in this deal and I bet you that's a trade Toronto would have to seriously consider.

I know, what do you think value wise though? Short or enough? TBH I think it's kind of an overpay from EDM side but I could be biased.

I dont think Leafs take on Lucic, go find another sucker

You can't always argue pure value in a trade. Teams have different needs, and Toronto's need is good players on cheap contracts so that they can keep being a contender. Zaitsev isn't that, but Lucic definitely isn't that, and swapping bad for worse makes no sense for a team in their situation. The 8th overall pick holds value, but Toronto isn't looking for value in terms of picks, again, they are looking for value in terms of cheap / cost controlled good players.

With that said I wouldn't trade Nylander for any pick in this draft unless it's 1st or 2nd OA. I'm a Bruins fan, I have no love for the Leafs, but this Nylander saga gets me fired up without failure every single time. He's literally the best player in the world championships right now, you have to evaluate point production with random effects in mind. He wasn't even bad last season, he was unlucky, his teammates were unlucky, and before you say "well if everyones unlucky maybe theyre not so good", well you're wrong. He has great historical production, he does everything correlated with getting high counting stats, but like everything counting stats are normally distributed, and Nylander happens to have a season on the lower end of the distribution of his expected production. Marner is on the higher end of his, but I see no one knocking him right now even though he'll undoubtedly regress back to his mean, just like Nylander will move up towards his.

So if you're going off that analysis, could you say the same about Lucic? He's been unlucky? He was a career 40-50 point guy, has had a really bad year and a half to date. I think he was on pace for 50 pts in 2017-2018 until January 2018 happened and has been terrible ever since.

Dubas would never trade for Lucic.

"Unlucky" is what happens to my players, yours are just plain garbage.

Do I have to type out that one is like 8 years older than the other? Lucic has bad underlying numbers, Nylanders look great. I also don't know why you're drawing arbitrary lines in periods of performance. Nylander shot 5.4% this season compared to 9.1 last year, Lucic actually had a slightly higher shooting %-age this season compared to last. His luck isn't going down, his performance is.

Are you one of those people that go "omg stats suck" only to intentionally interpret them as poorly as your ability allows?

I'd like to think I'm a balanced guy, eye test and statistics type. I don't go fully into both, I like to judge players both ways, situations, locker room stuff, other things analytics doesn't cover. Not saying statistics shouldn't be considered, I'm just saying I believe there's more to hockey than advanced analytics.

If it were that simple, there wouldn't be any parity in the league and excitement for that matter.

In your opinion, I very much disagree with that opinion. Toronto is a team in "win now" mode, trading for the pu-pu platter and a first round pick for one of their best players is the exact opposite of that. So no, Toronto is never doing that deal. I don't think they would do Zaitsev for Lucic right now, let alone the rest.

Random effects happen, players also develop and deteriorate, I just wasn't having any of the "Lucic could be unlucky too" cause I didn't think you gave that any consideration yourself, and it seems you honestly didn't either so