dont know why the leafs would do that
remember bracco isnt some run of the mill prospect hes one of the leafs best prospects
and faulk isnt much better than ceci

I don't mind what's going, and actually think Bracco has no real future with the Leafs so long as Babcock is their coach, but I think the Leafs can do better than Justin Faulk, both in terms of quality of player (more defensive, more physical) and some term left on their current deal. With Barrie and Muzzin heading into UFA status next season, the Leafs really need some cost certainty on their blueline. Ceci, Bracco, Timashov and a 2nd should be able to get the Leafs Josh Manson.

Really? According to most sens fans, Ceci sucks. And according to every Carolina fan, Faulk is a hero.

As for Bracco, if he is an A Prospect in the eyes of other teams, they should trade him. He'll never get a chance to be more than a 3rd liner in TO.

What world do you live in where Faulk isnt much better than ceci... He is miles ahead...

Sign me up for that trade!!

There would need to be some salary retention on Manson I think for this to get done, which is why I also included a better prospect in Timashov then I was originally going to include. Nevertheless, I think this is a pretty fair deal.

Anaheim has no reason to do that trade. Leafs second is going to be 45-61, so moderate value at best. Bracco is a good prospect, probably equivalent to a very early second, maybe a very late 1st, but he isn't a stud given how its taken him some time to get where he is.

Timashov is fine (I was actually pretty excited for him back in the Q days) but he's a meh prospect, unilkely to be worth more than a mid round pick, call it a 4th for arguments sake.

So Anaheim is going to trade a building block they have on D at the right age, for a good but fair contract, for an inferior defenseman who will be UFA in 1 year for two 2nds and a 4? It would make sense for them if Manson was 5 years older, but at his age, I don't see the upside for them.

I wouldn't really consider Manson a "building block", but Bracco, who has proved he is a stud prospect and ready for the NHL, which my count, makes him more considerably more valuable then any draft pick, since he will be, or rather should be, on an NHL roster this coming season. I think Timashov has pretty value and with a team that has roster spots available, like the Ducks, I could see him playing some NHL games this season. As for Ceci, even as a fringe top-4, he is still a right-hander, so that would at least replace the spot left by Manson. Honestly, the Ducks could totally include Eaves in the deal, which the Leafs could then LTIR anyway. I honestly think it's a good deal for both clubs.

Faulk has had an odd career, he was a really good up and coming D, making the NHL 2 seasons after being drafted and 2 years after that making team USA. He looked on a career projection to be looking at Norris votes in a couple years. Then he plateaued, his defensive game kind of stalled in development at fine/good, but not high end and he got overtaken by Slavin period and Pesce defensively (though Faulk is better offensively). Then they also went ahead and acquired a better offensive D (Hamilton is actually one of the best offensive D in the league).

I find it very hard to value him...

Personally though I wouldn't do the above trade because simply Bracco is too valuable to the Leafs particularly with cost certainty. At this point he's our 4th best RW, but most of our other RW prospects/tweeners don't have offensive upside.

Korshkov/Mikheyev/Moore all seem like they could be good NHLers, but they don't have offensive upside. I suppose people could say thats fine with Kapanen/Marner/Nylander ahead, but I wouldn't want to give it up.

The key to Bracco's development in the Leafs organization is going to be one of him/Kapanen/Nylander proving they can be a good LW (or Nylander moving to C and Kerfoot moving to LW).

I like it personally I think it helps both teams too.
Curious to see what duck fans think

I am sure Duck fans will not like it, even though they will need to do something to start filling in their roster with potential top-6 and top-9 skilled forwards (Bracco and potentially, Timashov), plus last I checked, the Ducks still have Lindholm, Fowler, and talented youngster Guhle, Larsson and Mahura.

When I compare to a draft pick I'm just trying to give him an objective value. Like saying he is worth x dollars if he could be "sold".

Bracco is a slightly undersized winger who fell to us in the 2nd because of his size. Otherwise he was a top prospect have set the USDP career assist record and I believe at the time most assists in a single season (which I believe has since been broken).

He then went to college, struggled, went to the OHL after a month or two, and did well. He didn't dominate the way we hoped he would but did pretty well. He actually did a little worse after a trade in his second year.

He then went to the AHL and did okay, honestly I was underimpressed. Finally last year, he developed his game to dominate in the AHL. But remember at this point he is already 21-22. (He turned 22 in March).

All of that is to say he has more or less continued to be exactly what he was thought to be. He was a good prospect with a bit of flaws, that fell to the late second round and has taken time to develop his game. He is looking pretty damn good in the AHL, but it has taken time to get there. At 21/22 his production is encouraging for his long term NHL success, but it is older than true studs for dominating at the NHL.

Frankly if he produced the way he did at 24, it wouldn't even be particularly impressive.

He has a GOOD shot at being a good NHLer, but a pretty reasonable chance of not being much.

For example is he the next Seth Griffiths (77 points in 57 GP in his 21/22 year old season) or maybe Jordan Weal/Teemu Pulkinnen/etc or is he the next Victor Arviddsson?

The bottom line is there are actually not a lot of players who dominate the AHL at that age. Most high end players have already established themselves by dominating earlier and making the NHL (think guys like Nylander/Rantanen) or are tweeners who dominate the AHL in the prime of their career but are borderline NHLers (think Zigomanis, Chriss Mueller, Trevor Smith, etc)

Okay this is a troll roster. Marners not signing for a buck under 10 million and why would the Leafs acquire ANOTHER UFA defense man?

What about if TOR changed out the 2nd for a 1st?

See, I was looking forward to hearing your logical answer, but as soon as you brought size into, I basically stopped paying attention. It was a valiant effort at objective valuing a player nonetheless, but you really got to take size out of it so far as his production goes. Also, you have to consider the fact that on most other teams he would have been called up by his NHL club last season had a roster spot been available. Most teams are not so patient with their prospects, and as I mentioned already, Babcock, for some reason, does not seem to like Bracco's game/work ethic. All in all, I think he is NHL-ready, but I don't see him getting any sort of chance with the Leafs, so that makes him a valuable asset. There is no reason why this asset cannot help the Leafs in other ways.

I agree but for arguments sake what do you think about swapping out the 2nd for a 1st? If that's what would get the deal done.

For arguments sake, I would not include a 1st at all cost. Even if the Leafs scout extremely well and can make up for their lack of first rounder in 2020 (or 2021) because of the deal with the Canes, the Leafs are going to need to find a way to replace some of their D because let's face it, they can't resign everyone. And where is the best place to look for such things? The draft of course. So, I think my deal, as is is extremely fair, but I would even add that the Ducks could throw in Eaves to the deal so that he goes on our LTIR. Remember, the Ducks are not a rich team, so them paying players like Kesler and Eaves when they are not going to be on the ice this season, while it won't crush their bottom line or anything, is certainly something I am sure they would want to avoid, if possible.

If you wanted to add a 1st to the deal, I would say Ceci, Bracco and a 1st to Anaheim for Manson, Eaves and one of their mid-level prospects.

I agree, was just wondering, also id be good with taking both of Eaves and Kessler, assuming he will never play again and im sure the leafs medical staff could take care of that.

There are cap consequences or repercussions for taking on LTIR money by way of overages. I am not 100% sure how it works, but I know it exists. The Leafs could take on either, or both, if it meant getting Manson for less then what "market value" is.

Ah did not know that, just trying to make it work. Thanks

Well, the Leafs could trade Hortons LTIR, which has 1 year left, as a part of the deal receive back Kessler, or Kessler and Eaves, since there is more term coming back to the Leafs. It is an interesting idea for sure.

Yeah but cant forget that Horton's contract wasn't insured at all so they would have to pay the full amount. Just curious do you have any idea how much Kessler was insured for? Cause i dont but would be interested to find out

I am not sure that matters, since the team that takes on the player, takes over the entire contract, at least for the sake of the cap hit. In terms of real dollars, insurance money, as you are alluded to, I am not sure much of that is public knowledge.

Agree about the cap hit. I wish it was made public, but my thinking was that maybe Kessler is owed roughly the same as Horton so for the ducks it would be a one time payment then the headache is gone, maybe? Dunno just an idea

The bottom line is the Leafs could care less about money, actual money (so not salary cap things), if it meant they benefited from the trade. Horton has 1 year left on his deal at $5.3 million I believe, while Kessler has 3 years left on his deal at $6.85 million AAV. So financially, if it benefited the Leafs, they should have no problem absorbing the complete remaining amount of Kessler's contract, sending it to LTIR and sending him to Robidas Island, if it meant that helped them land Josh Manson, and it didn't cost them a 1st, one of their top defensive prospects, or any current roster player.