Also think moving Kapanen allows them more freedom to resign Barrie, Muzzin, Dermott, Mikheyev, etc. if the Leafs want to resign any/all of those guys.

Anaheim with an easy no

Why would the Ducks do this. They need Manson way more than Kapanen.....and they have to take Ceci???Ducks decline immediately I’d imagine.

No thanks.

-Manson > Kap+Ceci
-Miller won't waive to go to Toronto.

Why would they do this? Because they aren't a playoff team, they aren't a contender and they don't have any elite forward talent coming up. A rebuild would be the wisest course of action for this squad. Keeping a 28 year old defensive defenceman who is currently the most overrated player in the world according to cap friendly doesn't make sense when they should be prioritizing youth and skill.

So moving out an older player who isn't going to be necessary for a rebuild and an old backup who is probably going to retire soon, for a young skilled and blazingly fast forward with a high upside and Ceci, is a good plan of action for a team that should be thinking long term future right now.

I’m so damn tired of leafs fans thinking Kapanen has anywhere this much value. HE. IS. A. THIRD. LINER. ENOUGHHH.

Manson is better than Ceci, yes. But he isn't more valuable than a 23 year old high ceiling forward under contract for 3 years at a team friendly rate. Manson isn't really anything special and the Ducks should look at a rebuild. Scraping by hoping that somehow they find lightning in a bottle to somehow be good again without finding elite top end talent is only going leave this team spinning its wheels for a while. This is a common thing in the league. Teams that were contenders, age and fall off and then their GM's try to milk every last drop out of it and won't admit, they need to rebuild, they send futures away to try to patch holes and it never works. Do you really want to see Anaheim go down the same path LA went down for the past 4 seasons? Every year they looked too old, slow and tired and every year they were close enough to give false hope so they spent money, traded away assets and tried to kick the can up the hill and now, they have a terrible cap situation riddled with long term terrible contracts and it will a long hard road for them. That is exactly what Anaheim has to look forward to unless they commit to a rebuild.

You don’t actually believe this do you. Take off the Blue glasses and look at it from the Ducks view. I like how you downplay Manson and elevate Kapanen to a high upside guy. Typical.

I like how you were all like "ouuuuuu Manson is overrated!!!" and followed it up by essentially screaming "Kap is the GOATTTTT!!!!"

Realistically, do you think this is the best offer the Ducks could get for Manson? Because there's a whole lot of other teams in the league other than Toronto, and many of them could use Manson.

Most overrated player on the boards isn’t Manson it’s Kapanen if anyone. What a laughable statement. You’re killing any credibility you have left.

I see Kap as a guy who could be a 30 goal scorer in the right situation. I doubt it happens in TO, at least on a consistent basis, he is buried on the 3rd line in TO. But Manson isn't anything special. He's the 3rd best guy on Anahiem behind Fowler and Linholm. He's just the current flavor of the month. Muzzin cost less than what Ducks fans think Manson is going to bring back and Muzzin was far more accomplished of a player than Manson. Manson is good but come on, how do better players get less return and despite that you think Manson is going to get a kings ransom?

I don't think any GM in the league is going to give up a current top 6 23 year old player on a good contract for Manson. He's not worth that much. He's a 28 year defensive defenceman who can play on a top pair. He's right handed so the people on here think that means he's worth the world but its not the reality. I don't think Kapanen is the GOAT, I think he's what exactly I called him. A 23 year old player with a lot of untapped talent that would be a good piece to have for a rebuilding team. He could blossom into something terrific if he had more opportunity which he won't get in TO. I'd maybe do a 1 for 1 for Manson but that's it. All these trades where TO sends Kapanen, Liljegren and a 1st for Manson is a joke. He isn't worth that much.

Muzzin's track record, ability and leadership qualities far outweigh what Manson has done to this point in his career and Muzzin didn't cost this much. Maybe a 1st and a A-/B prospect is a better starting point to think of.

Because Kap would be behind Raks, Steel, Zegras for sure, and depending on how you judge players Kase, and he'd be in the same boat as Comtois Terry Ritchie Lundestrom and likely BOG and Morand depending on their development and Manson is currently, and long term really, their ONLY top 4 RHD man... oh and they don't have another NHL capable goalie, so Miller likely won't be traded...

A. I value Kap as slightly more than a first soooo... and B. people don't think Manson is that good, people with a brain see that the ducks don't have any other competent RHD men, if he was in CAR or smth, for sure I'd at least strongly consider Kap for him...

Please tell me more about the long list of comparably bad contracts that Anaheim has that will hold them back in the future? They have over $20 mil in space coming into the next offseason. They have one of the top 2 goalies in the NHL. They have a pretty significant group of young prospects to make up their future core.

Their roster has THREE players over 30, and that includes Ryan Miller. Aside from Fowler (And Getzlaf, who expires after next season) their most significant long term contracts expire before those players turn 35 (Rico, Silfverberg, Fowler, Gibby).

Did I mention that they have OVER $20 MIL IN CAP SPACE NEXT SEASON?!?!?!

You're a Leafs fan, and that's cool. I respect it. But when you start comparing teams to the Kings because of their bad contracts, maybe look at your own roster first. You've got a total of 10 NHLers signed for next year, and have already spent $67ish million dollars.

Best of luck in the future!

How many years of control did you get with Muzzin? How many would you get of Manson? What's the difference in value with the extra year + of control? What's been your teams biggest need for the past number of years? Are you the only team in the NHL that's interested in acquiring the player in question? Why are you comparing the leadership qualities of Muzzin vs. Manson, and, have you spent any time with either one of them, or are you just going by what you read in the Sportsnet comment section?

I have said, I'd probably do Manson for Kap in a 1 for one. But I wouldn't go further than that. I'd maybe throw in a 4th if you also take Ceci and send Miller for one last crack at the cup, but I wouldn't add anything in a 1 for 1. So I think we are pretty close to agreeing here.

I don't see any of your group of prospects being top end elite talent. At least not with the forwards. I think you have really good pieces but lack the high end talent you need to win. Which is why I think you should trade anything that isn't 25 or younger and keep building. Having too many high end young players is never a problem. Not having any is a huge issue that is almost impossible to fix without drafting high near the beginning of the 1st round.

Value wise sure, but to actually get Manson FROM ANA you're going to have to add a hell of a lot more

Having too many high end young players is never a problem, ehhhhh (Quickly glances 2019 standings, the teams battling for the playoff spots in the East, and at what 2020 looks like for the Leafs...)?

Here's a cool exercise:

What holes do the Ducks currently have?
-Top line forward to provide offence.
-Top 4 RHD.

What can you do with over $20 mil in cap space and a desirable market for free agents?
-Continue to draft well (It's weird that you don't think that Zegras has upside?)
-Sign a top line forward (Heck, why not overpay Taylor Hall?). Mike Hoffman would fill the bill as well.
-Sign a top 4 RHD. Assuming that Pietrangelo signs in STL, that leaves Krug or Barrie (who'd add a nice little bit of offence). Hamonic or Brodie would fit in as well.

Or, if you miss out on FA's, take this other cool route:

Trade some of the surplus of young Fwds (Kase, Ritchie, etc.), and/or young LD's (Larsson, Guhle) and use them to upgrade that way.

Lots of options that don't involve giving away Manson to the Leafs for hopes and dreams.

But Muzzin is a lot better. So that is an irrelevant statement. As for other teams wanting to obtain him, yeah I am sure there would be others. However, looking at the past several TDL's teams aren't willing to part with premium future assets like they used to. If this was the 90's Manson would get you a 1st and a top prospect easy. Likely more, but since this is the age of youth, you won't see teams sending major assets for a defensive defenceman. I used Muzzin as an example because a) he didn't get the package you guys think Manson deserves and b) he is a better player by a fair margin.

Then Manson is remaining a Duck. Teams don't overpay massively at the deadline anymore. In the cap era you need youth, having talented young players who can supplement an elite core is paramount to keep on top. No one is going to overpay for a defensive defenceman who's doesn't really move the needle all that much. Manson is a good player, I am not saying he isn't without value but lets come back to earth and realize he isn't going to get multiple high value assets in return. A Kap for Manson trade is a win win for both teams. Adding more is just greedy.

Okay there is no point in continuing this conversation. I think Anaheim should actively get rid of older assets and commit to a full youth rebuild. You'll probably be in the bottom 5 for 2-3 years where you'll get the opportunity to draft extremely high end talent that you can build around. You have some good periphery pieces, guys who definitely will be great contributors. But I don't see any Elite 1C's in your prospect pool, I don't see any elite #1 D's in your prospect pool. Your plan is to overpay veterans to milk the core you have a little longer. How is that working for Vancouver? And they actually have high end elite youth in Petterson, Boeser, Hughes and Horvat.

Spending big money on guys entering their 30's is about as dumb a plan as one can have. So lets just agree to disagree here.

As for the Leafs, they needed a change at the helm, Babs was too stubborn for his own good and TO has been a different team under Keefe. If they are just scratching the surface of what they can be as they transition to a new system, I think its a safe bet to say they will continue to rise up the standings. Anaheim doesn't have near the same expectations.

Kappy is a high end 2nd line or a low end 1st liner based on stats. Sick and tired of leaf haters underrating leafs players. Kapanen is on the first line right now. Has played on 1st 2nd and 3rd line this season.

Cool. I think you're really, really missing the point here.

-The Ducks don't need to trade Manson.
-If the Ducks trade Manson, it creates a large hole on their back end.
-If the Ducks were to trade Manson, it'd have to be an overpay.
-A 3rd line winger with upside isn't an overpay.
-You don't want to give up more, therefore you continue to have a need for a shutdown RHD (I mean, it's only been a handful of years that it's been an area of need for the Leafs, you might as well continue to wait it out!)
-There's a number of other teams out there that would be interested in Manson if he were made available.

And, without further ado, the number 1 reason why thinking the return for Manson should be less than that of Muzzin is complete balogna:
-You traded for 1.25 years of Muzzin. You're trading for 2.5ish years of Manson, locked in at an extremely affordable rate as well, whereas you're going to lose one of Barrie/Muzzin, if not both after a raise to Dermott.

Pretty easy to see that this is apparently not a fit for either club.