Too much for Allen,
StL would probably just get rid of him for a mid round pick bc they need the Cap Space
Especially if they wanna try & keep Pietrangelo

I’d like a better return for Montour
Don’t think much of Tierney, especially at 2C

The Blues have zero use for either of those players.

He would just be 2C until Cozens is ready to step up to 2C. What kind of return are you expecting from Montour?

The way i look at it, Montour is a top4 defenseman. And he’s a RH shot. Those are always in demand
That’s more valuable than a 3C

And i just don’t see the value in trading him for guy to put in a spot higher up than we should
Already made that mistake too many times already,
haven’t we?

Imo, Montour should be traded for a legit top6 forward,
even if we have to add to make that happen

I mean right now our center depth is Eichel, out of position Johansson, Larsson, and Lazar. We don't really have a legit 2C or 3C on this team. Getting Tierney would be a huge upgrade to our top 6 and our center depth.

It would be amazing if we could get a 2C for Montour+, but I just don't expect that to happen.

Let’s say we can’t get a 2C for Montour
I still think Montour could get us a RW2
Skinner-Cozens-RW2
Shelter that line with mostly o zone starts
Then use Tage or Asplund to bring in a 3C to play between Johansson & Kahun

Is that ideal?
No
But putting an offensive talent like Cozens in a good offensive spot gives us a better chance at consistent secondary scoring than putting a 3C like Tierney there
That’s the same recipe for failure we’ve been trying ever since we stupidly traded O’Reilly
Let’s not keep making that mistake

You're gonna put Cozens in the 2C role right away? You're talking about repeating mistakes but that's what we just did with Mitts & Tage. Put 2 young guys not ready for the NHL yet. Let's not ruin another promising guy.

We've sucked so long because we have no scoring depth outside of a few players. This offseason should focus on getting guys like Tierney that won't cost too much and still boost on our forward core. Not overpaying a la Tim Murray.

Montour isn't gonna get a 2RW unless you're including a 1st in there too.

Disagree on Montour’s value

And sheltering a legit offensive talent like Cozens between 2 good wingers is NOT something we’ve done
Tierney, Johansson, Larsson, Sobotka, etc etc....
NONE of them have the offensive talent of Cozens
Not even close
Cozens IS ready for the NHL by all accounts
Very doubtful he goes back to Juniors again

So yeah... if we are gonna shelter him in the top9,
it’s not a horrible idea to give him the best wingers possible
Whether u wanna put him on what you’d consider line2 or line3 is arbitrary
He’s going to be deployed in favorable situations regardless,
so why not do that with better wingers than Johansson & Kahun?

Tierney blows as far as offensive depth scoring is concerned

No; we do not need or want Asplund, so the Andy bounceback gamble makes more sense to us.

I agree that the Allen deal is way too much for 1 year of this player. Maybe send them Johannson and Pilut and we keep Miller or move him in another deal. I am ok with the Tierney deal. He is not my favorite 2C option, but he is definitely an upgrade over what we have in house and could slide into 3C role seamlessly on that contract when Cozens is ready for 2C job.

How are you going to fit him under the cap? Plus it seems like he does not fit the organization. Reported his last contract negotiations were very contentious and he is not happy with how Torts has been handling his role on the team.

That second bit is speculation; it's never been confirmed. And "does not fit the organization"? Have you seen how the Jackets play? He's practically core identity.

You start Ullmark over Allen? So Buffalo gets a starting goaltender that makes them competitive and the blues essentially get a defenseman that wont crack their lineup?

@Jdfitz77
@dzmets

Montour is very under rated on this site.
Checking his advanced stats he was our best RHD last year.
While one may view this trade as filling two holes for one player (LHD and C) Ottawa would need to add a lot more than Reilly to square the deal IMO.

We all envision Cozens at 2C, what if instead
Olofsson - Eichel - a player to be named later (8th OA, Mittelstadt, Thompson, trade, UFA etc.) I think a chair could get 15 goals playing with Jack.
Skinner - Reinhart - Kahun
Johansson - Cozens - Okposo two veterans could keep the jitters down while Dylan worked his way into the 2C spot.
Asplund - Lazar - a player to be named later (see top line)

Trade Miller or Montour or Ristolainen (who ever returns the most) and whatever needed to Calgary for Hanifin or another team to balance the LHD and RHD.
Reinhart failed at center because he had poor line mates, give him a couple of talented ones and IMO he would give us similar production as he has demonstrated playing with Jack.

As you can see, I am not advocating any big moves.
Shuffle the deck, deal new hands and add a LHD.
I know I am in a minority but Skinner played over 50% of the time with Lazar, Larsson, etc. that my friends was very poor coaching.
It reminded me when I would watch Geoff Sanderson skate into the offensive zone alone, I also thought Ruff misused Geoff in a similar fashion.

Well that is my take, the team is close and ran into many unfortunate career worse years and missed the preliminaries.
It only took one more PK success in 69 games and the team is looking forward to extra time.
'
BTW when one gets to the NHL no player should NEED a motivator, just one who knows hockey.

I’ve got no clue why Sam wasn’t tried back at Center at all the past 2yrs with the troubles we’ve had to fill that spot??
I’d be cool with it, but it just seems like we won’t go that route for some reason
Okposo should stay in a defensive role i think
He’s been pretty good at it. I don’t think he’s a top9 guy anymore

This is just one of many reasons I feel Krueger poor coaching was the main reason the Sabres did so poorly.
I never would have put Sobotka on the second line at the beginning of the season.
I had this vision:
Olofsson Eichel Rodrigues
Skinner Reinhart Sheary
Johansson Mittelstadt Vesey (this was a line combination 18% of the time)
Girgensons Larsson Okposo
That would have been two decent top lines.
Skinner, Rodrigues, Vesey and Sheary all have much better years with better line mates.
Maybe Mittelstadt could not produce in that role,
I never thought Botterill and Krueger were on the same page of the program.

I hate the Tierney idea
He’s not even a good 3C offensively
If he’s the best we can do, then I’d rather just play Cozens on that line & shelter them as much as possible
At least he has the offensive talent to potentially help that line be a consistent scoring unit
Heck... I’d even rather give Mitts a shot at it if he’s been training his butt off this offseason (hopefully)

I do not believe Tierney has the offensive talent to help that line consistently score, so I’m not wasting my time trying him in that spot
And i sure don’t wanna give up a top4 RH defenseman for him!
I think that would be very bad asset management

Looks like u could be right about that
Obviously the Pegulas chose Ralph to stay & Botts to go

E Rod has some offensive talent, but I’d don’t know about him being a top6 guy. That’s pushing it just as much as Sobatka imo
And while i NEVER liked Sobatka (as u can likely tell from what i think about the ROR trade, lol) he actually did look good on that line till he got hurt

It was the first year of Kruger
And that roster last year had holes in it no matter what he did
Hopefully we can get another one or 2 filled, and we’ll see what he does with it this year

As hard as it is,
I’m just trying to stay positive about the Sabres going forward
Bc if our young talent starts to develop like it should,
we could be a pretty good hockey team

I agree, I hope the Pegulas do not for Adams to make stupid moves.
Knowing how much the Pegulas have interfered with both Murray and Botterill, I know they will mess with Kevyn as well.
THAT is the main reason I am so pessimistic.

But I am also optimistic:
Let me say it all again JUST ONE successful PK in any one of many games, the Sabres are in the preliminaries.
If Hutton does not have a 0-8-4 stretch they are on the heals of the Leafs.
If Skinner, Sheary, Rodrigues and Vesey do not have career worse years the team EASILY has 5 more pts.
If the PP did not disappear how many more pts does the team have?
I know people think the world of Krueger, but PP and PK failures with the talent the Sabres had was due to poor coaching.
I can remember screaming at the Sabre players to move around while the defense just had to stay in their box and block the passing lanes.
We just had this discussion, poor line ups, poor result, poor record, missed play offs.
So if the Rasmuses keep getting better, Cozens, Mittelstadt and Thompson step into the NHL, this is easily a team in the hunt until mid March.
With some luck tossed in there, they are in the playoffs.

We agree on too many things to let O'Reilly get in our way.
As I have said, I value your opinions. You give good reasons, nor always in step with the masses, and have good insight.

He is not my top choice but 4 if his 6 seasons he has been on over a 40 per 82 pace including the last 3 years in a row. You will be hard pressed to find many 3C's in the league that produce that much. I think if flanked by Reino and Skinner 45 - 55 points would be a realistic expectation and 25 goals for Sam and 25 - 30 for Skinner would be realistic. I think this line sets up for 30 + goals per 82 more than we have had since Orwilly and that is a huge lift to our offense. Sure I would love to have a 60 - 70 point guy there but that is much more difficult to acquire. I think even on a good rookie year you are hoping for 35 maybe 40 points from Cozens realistically. He obviously could come out and set the league on fire and get you 60 points and if he is trending that way then Tierney slots nicely on the third line for about 40 points between Kahun and Johansson

I don’t see any difference between Tierney & MoJo at the 2C spot
And we don’t have to trade Montour to slot MoJo there
It’s just a bad idea

And if u put Cozens in that spot,
i think he AT LEAST puts up 15-30-45pts
And has MUCH more offensive upside than that

Johansson was on pace for 40 points last year and his pace at the center position was under 35 points. He produced at a much higher rate playing on the wing. There are lots of great centers in the league that we would be thrilled if Cozens became the type of player they are that have not even produced even 40 points per 82 games in their first NHL season. Alot of top centers get there 9 games and then go back to Junior because they are just not quite ready yet. While it appears Cozens is ready at this time we don't know until we see him at the NHL level.

Admittedly I’m assuming Cozens is “ready”

But i think you’re missing my point
I don’t feel like Tierney is a guy that makes “line2” a unit that we can consistently score with
Johansson- 30pts in 60games last year
Tierney- 37pts in 71games
So pretty much the same player

Even if it’s a SLIGHT upgrade,
it’s not worth trading a top4 RH defenseman for
It’s a terrible trade to move Montour or Risto for a guy who is really a 3C

9 points in 12 games on the wing 60 point pace. 21 points in 48 at center 35 point pace for Johannson. Obviously a small sample size but for his career he has been playing much better on the wing. He also only has 1 year remaining on his contract. This gets Tierney here for 3 years on a lower cap hit and even if there is not a huge difference I would still expect Tierney to make a line better being centered by him. If we role with Johannson at 2C this year we will need to go out and find a 3C next year anyhow. Why not add to our depth down the middle and honestly if we keep Montour I think our D core is better if we play Borgen and healthy scratch Montour the whole year

I’m not saying i want Johansson at 2C
I’m saying Tierney would be a slight improvement IF ANY
And that he is a 3C quality player
Montour is a RD2 quality player

RD2 has WAY MORE VALUE than 3C

So....
1- i don’t want Tierney at 2C. Don’t think he helps over what we already have, not enough that it makes a difference
2- it’s a bad trade

Idk how many more ways i can spell it out??