Why do people keep trying to trade a UFA with no contract. The leafs don't have any control over Ceci as of the moment trades are open. I know he basically doesn't matter here but still. Also no chance on this trade. Even at 5.5 this keeps Tor hard locked on cap issues.

No hope for this trade.

Start with Marner. It’ll also need a 1st+

Iafollo isn’t just a throw in.

Lmao, you might have missed it, because its super easy to miss, but he wants 50% retained too.

Well Toronto is too cap strapped to want to do anything like this, even with 50% retention.

On the other hand LA would probably never want to do this either, as they JUST signed that deal.

I have to agree with @Nighthawk too because Iafallo has shown some promise and raised his ceiling this past season.

Ceci being a UFA takes him out of this deal entirely.

If there weren't so many factors surrounding it, on paper, it's not a bad swap, but Doughty is overvalued by LA. I'm not sure the rest of the league feels the same way. Nylander on the other hand is actually quite a good young forward and he has chemistry with the teams other young offensive stars. If Doughty wasn't signed for another 7 (!!) years this might actually work, but Nylander, Holl and a 1st seems to be a bit much.

Marner and a first eh? Not a chance, Doughty is in decline and is signed for a loooong time. The money retained is not a factor, Leafs still wouldn't do it. If you've been watching Doughty play there is no way.. years ago fine, not now though. People always look at Doughty as the Olympic Doughty from years ago, he is not at that level any longer and has logged a lot of hard miles on his body. Iafallo would be nice though.

And Doughty is not worth it anymore either.

Marner and a 1st for Doughty, Iafallo and 4 million in cap space isn't as bad as you think. Iafallo opens up Johnsson to move so it could actually be Doughty, Iafallo, whatever johnsson gets back and up to7 million in space for Marner, Johnsson and a 1st. Trust me, that deal is at least close despite the decline of Drew.

I wouldn't even think of doing that. I have a soft spot for Doughty and a lot of ex international players, but he has lost a step and gets beat wide a lot now. Toronto's problem is not offence, which he still has but their issue is defence. If he is the number one D and they play him with Rielly...yikes

Leafs dont even consider Doughty at 50%

LOL a franchise winger that will consistently put up 60+ Points (just put up 97 Points last yr) is only 23 and locked up til 2025, a depth winger who puts up 20 G's a and 40 Pts a season, and a 1st Round pick in 2022 most likely because 2021 Is conditional to CAR and LAK most likely won't wait 3 years to cash in on a 1st rounder FOR a declining 30-year-old defenseman who's locked in till 2027 at $11 Million who puts up 45 points a season with single-digit goals????

Am I missing something here?? Even with LAK holding 50% salary for the duration why would the Leafs want to buy-out or have a 37 yr old $5.5 Million D-man who, at that point, probably won't be able to crack the line-up while Marner is still tearing up the league and producing 80 Point seasons....

This 'Short Term Fix' would be disastrous for the Leafs Medium-Long Term and would be an absolutely horrible trade, this would be a Peter Chiarelli or John Ferguson Jr. trade

New Leafs fan just showed up. Everyone pretend you're not here. Someone turn off the lights.

Oh looks someone wants to pick on the new guy because he's a Leafs fan and he pointed out the statistical facts... come on guys lets pretend like we hate him and maybe he won't tear apart my terrible trade XD

Ok, well, I guess I'll respond.

First I didn't make the trade. Second I didn't accept the trade. I said it's not as bad as people think and it's at least close. Here's why.

Toronto has too many big contracts. One has to go. These are facts. Tavares has a no move. Matthews isn't going and Nylander's money isn't big enough. (it really isn't, trust me) It's not that Marner sucks or Marner is overpaid or any of that. Marner kinda has to go because it just ends up that way.

So assume that's the plan. (if you wanna argue that point that's fine, it's a separate argument but I'm going on my assumption Marner has to go)

Now what do you look for back? You need to save money and you need spread out the contracts especially over defensemen. You want prospects and picks because they have value but don't cost you cap. (this is why I wouldn't do this trade because it doesn't have the little pieces it needs)

Yes Doughty is on a scoring decline. Hugely. 100% agree. but that's not a problem for Tor. Scoring is not what's missing. D that actually play D is what's missing. Doughty for 5.5 million playing 24 min against top lines is 1000% Tor's biggest issue being solved and at a steal price. (contract wise not Marner wise)

So as I said, it's not as bad as you think. Doesn't mean I'd do it. So relax.

Was that so hard? instead of coming at me and trying to ... idk put down the new guy? just be a d*ck? you could have simply laid out you position on it, so we can ... yaknw go back 'n forth and debate it like a forum is meant to be, unless this is another one of those forums where the environment is just completely toxic and unless you have X,000 Posts your POV is disregarded and irrelevant.

Now that we've got the 'formalities' out of the way lol

Fair, I can agree that we have too many big contracts (the fact our big 3 takes up $30+ mill doesn't help). The point of Nylander's cap hit not being enough I just can't get behind though, the reason is because he's slotted at $7 Million (Marner at $11 Million, $4 Mill diff) considering what we do with the situation there is a real possibility we could get a quality D-man and not lose Marner.

If the Leafs don't resign Ceci and Barrie (cap reasons, unless we keep him or we do a sign and trade) you have $7.2 Million, now you can either take that as it is, enter the market with Nylander on the block and the $7.2 Million and have a total of $14 Million of free cash to play with. OR we go a different route, we sign Barrie to a $3-5 Million contract and then decide to either keep him or move him with/without Nylander. Either way you look at it moving Nylander (plus a few other pieces) to acquire a top defenseman and save cap is a realistic move, we don't 'have to' get rid of Marner.

Back to the other points now, Saving money, Agree. Spreading contracts out, Agree. Prospects + Picks, Agree. Heck, even the leafs needing a Dman that actually plays Defense vs focusing on scoring I even agree but to let go of Marner isn't the way to do it, now while the OP's trade isn't ideal and I'd rather search for another defenseman to trade for and for a better deal it's something that I could see being done, swap Nylander for Marner in the OP's trade and that just becomes unrealistic to me, at the very least a gross overpayment for a declining Dman that won't be on the Leafs as a number 1-3 in 2-4 years potentially; which is the point I was making by laying out the statistics.

At the end of it though my thoughts are, the moves the Leafs need to make and their intricacies are going to be a minefield for Dubas in order to achieve lowering his Cap Hit, Acquiring a Top 2 Defenseman, and holding on to as much talent as he can. Now in saying that I know, cap-wise were in a precarious position which makes the other tasks even more difficult to attain, but trading away one of the top wingers on the team and even in the NHL for a Dman that meets our needs of today at the expense of tomorrow's future isn't how we do it. If we go the route of moving Nylander and a few prospects instead (still leveraging tomorrow's future but not losing that elite winger) then that I can get behind as that satisfies a few of our needs. Like I agreed with before simply put to effectively (Nylander) to make it happen I can get behind that.

"Was that so hard? instead of coming at me and trying to ... idk put down the new guy? just be a d*ck? you could have simply laid out you position on it, so we can ... yaknw go back 'n forth and debate it like a forum is meant to be, unless this is another one of those forums where the environment is just completely toxic and unless you have X,000 Posts your POV is disregarded and irrelevant."

Yes it is that hard. the other leafs guy around is making Tavares for McDavid and Malgin for the 4th overall pick trades. Just because you might be more reasonable but your first comment starts LOL I don't give you instant credit. Apologies.

"If the Leafs don't resign Ceci and Barrie (cap reasons, unless we keep him or we do a sign and trade) you have $7.2 Million, now you can either take that as it is, enter the market with Nylander on the block and the $7.2 Million and have a total of $14 Million of free cash to play with. OR we go a different route, we sign Barrie to a $3-5 Million contract and then decide to either keep him or move him with/without Nylander. Either way you look at it moving Nylander (plus a few other pieces) to acquire a top defenseman and save cap is a realistic move, we don't 'have to' get rid of Marner."

This doesn't work like you think it does. You're losing multiple LTIR contracts that Dubas has been using as cap leverage. you also have to resign Ilya and more importantly, you're thinking exactly one year ahead and not going forward. Freddy has 1 year left, his money is going up. Morgan has 2. His money is going way up. You move Nylander now and manage this spot, even with losing someone to Seattle you might still have to move Mitch in two years. Or you can move Mitch now, protect Willy and not lose anyone important.

"Back to the other points now, Saving money, Agree. Spreading contracts out, Agree. Prospects + Picks, Agree. Heck, even the leafs needing a Dman that actually plays Defense vs focusing on scoring I even agree but to let go of Marner isn't the way to do it, now while the OP's trade isn't ideal and I'd rather search for another defenseman to trade for and for a better deal it's something that I could see being done, swap Nylander for Marner in the OP's trade and that just becomes unrealistic to me, at the very least a gross overpayment for a declining Dman that won't be on the Leafs as a number 1-3 in 2-4 years potentially; which is the point I was making by laying out the statistics."

I have made multiple... multiple trade pitches trying to get other defensemen. i'm not locked in on Drew in the slightest. He wasn't and still isn't even on my radar. I pitched David Savard and Josh Manson as my top 2 and i still stand by that. Every leafs fan has been pitching Willy for Dumba which is idiotic. mainly because it does nothing for your money but also he doesn't focus on defense either. (there's good reasons why Leaf fans get no respect) The problem is, you trade Willy for Josh Manson and what else do you get. Not much, something medium, cool. you save like 2 million and fix a problem. Now fix the money problem.

My main pitch for Toronto is two parts. Marner (and maybe some RFA rights) to Anaheim for Josh Manson, Rickard Rakell and a mid tier prospect (Sam Steel ish) Rakell is also a stud btw. That opens 3 million and fills a roster spot so you can move Andres Johnsson somewhere else for whatever. Now you have 6.5 million open (real money not oh well we have to fill some new spots money) and your team overall might be better. That's what i would do. I also think Anaheim would take it. (this site is notorious for homer trades that the other team would never consider)

Now Manson might not be the top pairing guy you think you need but if Muzzin plays top 2 thats fine. depth has been a problem and Manson playing 18-20 min is not a downside.

I was never on board with Doughty, I just know it's less bad than it looked. Less bad can still be bad.