A small step back to step forward

Forums/Armchair-GM

Page 1 of 1

Created by: Mitch_in_Vic

Team: 2020-21 Vancouver Canucks

Initial Creation Date: Sep. 5, 2020

Published: Sep. 5, 2020

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

In an attempt to clear cap space to resign Hughes and Pettersson for the 21/22 season, some moves need to be made to get some contracts off the books and allow space for younger players on more cost effective contracts a chance to play.

1. The decision to move on from Markstom is difficult for the Canucks as he is currently a Vezina caliber goalie by all of the advanced analytics. Trading his rights in a "trade to sign deal" with Toronto keeps him out of the west, and allows Toronto to unload Anderson. It also gives Toronto a legitimate #1 with very high Vezina potential. A conditional pick is contingent on Marky being a finalist or Vezina winner in the first two years, but is not surrendered at all if he fails. Marky at a Vezina Level puts the Leafs seriously in the contender window even with a porous defense in front of him as proven in Vancouver.

2. Getting rid of Eriksson's years at a 6mil cap hit, but only 4mil total of remaining salary will help a Covid-cash-strapped team with cap space keep their operational costs down over the next 2 years. To sweaten the deal, the Canucks include Virtannen's RFA rights and take Schnider back and buy him out immediately, saving 4mil in cap space for the Canucks. NJ gets a good young player in need of a change of scenery, a serviceable player in a cap-wash for a goalie who is likely never going to play another game for the Devils, AND save 4mil/year in money paid out.

3. Buyout of Sutter

4. Trade Tryamkin's rights and a 2021 2nd to get Puljujärvi's rights out of Edmonton... Might need more to get Jesse, but he's never signing with Edmonton, so his attitude is questionable and his value is diminished from the 4th overall pick he once was.

5. Trade Baertschi with 50% retained for STL's 2022 7th just to give him a chance somewhere else. I heard rumours that had him linked to the Habs at the deadline, but the deal fell through.

6. Trade Benn to Dallas to reunite the brothers. Pick is flexible but a 4th is fair for a 5/6/7th D-man

7. Let Taffoli walk as a UFA

2021/22
Podkolzin signs his ELC and takes RW on 3rd line. Hoglander replaces Pearson(UFA after 2020/21) on 2nd line full time if he didn't do so already in the 2020/21 season.

Myers will be the only noted player to get exposed to Seattle in the expansion draft leaving the canucks $33.8 million to resign Demko, Hughes, Pettersson and any UFA/RFA other players for 2021/22.

Free Agent Signings

RESERVE LIST	YEARS	CAP HIT
Focht, Carson	3	$750,000
Karlsson, Linus	3	$750,000
Plasek, Karel	3	$750,000
Puljujärvi, Jesse	4	$2,500,000

RFA	YEARS	CAP HIT
Motte, Tyler	4	$1,200,000
Stecher, Troy	5	$2,500,000
Gaudette, Adam	5	$2,500,000

UFA	YEARS	CAP HIT
Leivo, Josh	3	$1,750,000
Fantenberg, Oscar	2	$1,050,000
Tanev, Christopher	4	$4,500,000

Trades

VAN

Andersen, Frederik

Additional Details:

Conditional pick as per details section

TOR

Markstrom's exclusive signing rights in a trade-to-sign deal

EDM

Tryamkin, Nikita [Reserve List]
2021 2nd round pick (VAN)

VAN

2022 7th round pick (STL)

MTL

Baertschi, Sven ($1,683,333 retained)

VAN

2021 4th round pick (DAL)

DAL

Benn, Jordie

Buyouts

Ryan Spooner: $1,033,333
Brandon Sutter: $2,041,667
Cory Schneider: $2,000,000

Retained Salary Transactions

Sven Baertschi: $1,683,333 (50%)

Recapture Fees

Roberto Luongo: $3,035,212

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2020
2021
2022

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

EMBED

TEXT-EMBED

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
22	$81,500,000	$74,840,212	$1,700,000	$4,750,000	$6,659,788

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Miller, J.T. $5,250,000$5,250,000 C, LW, RW UFA - 3	Pettersson, Elias $925,000$925,000 ($2,850,000$3M) C, LW UFA - 1	Boeser, Brock $5,875,000$5,875,000 RW UFA - 2
Pearson, Tanner $3,750,000$3,750,000 LW UFA - 1	Horvat, Bo $4,125,000$4,125,000 C UFA - 3	Puljujärvi, Jesse $2,500,000$2,500,000 RW UFA - 2
Höglander, Nils $891,667$891,667 ($200,000$200K) LW, RW RFA - 3	Gaudette, Adam $2,500,000$2,500,000 C, RW UFA - 1	Leivo, Josh $1,750,000$1,750,000 RW, LW UFA - 1
Roussel, Antoine $3,000,000$3,000,000 LW M-NTC UFA - 2	Beagle, Jay $3,000,000$3,000,000 C M-NTC UFA - 2	Motte, Tyler $1,200,000$1,200,000 LW, RW UFA - 2

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Hughes, Quinn $916,667$916,667 ($850,000$850K) LD UFA - 1	Tanev, Christopher $4,500,000$4,500,000 RD UFA - 4	Demko, Thatcher $1,050,000$1,050,000 G UFA - 1
Edler, Alexander $6,000,000$6,000,000 LD NMC UFA - 1	Stecher, Troy $2,500,000$2,500,000 RD UFA - 2	Andersen, Frederik $5,000,000$5,000,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1
Fantenberg, Oscar $1,050,000$1,050,000 LD UFA	Myers, Tyler $6,000,000$6,000,000 RD NTC UFA - 4
Juolevi, Olli $863,333$863,333 ($850,000$850K) LD UFA - 1	Rafferty, Brogan $700,000$700,000 RD UFA - 1

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
		Ferland, Micheal $3,500,000$3,500,000 LW, RW NMC UFA - 3

Sep. 5, 2020 at 2:52 a.m.

JaredOfLondon

Joined: May 2019

Posts: 19,749

Likes: 7,382

Seriously, you dont get a starting goalie for player rights

Sep. 5, 2020 at 2:58 a.m.

Claesson4Norris

Joined: Jan. 2018

Posts: 17,055

Likes: 12,061

Sign and trade deals for pending UFAs aren't a thing. What's the incentive for the player or the team getting that player? If a player wants to sign somewhere, he can just sign somewhere for no additional cost to that team, and if the player doesn't want to go there, the deal would just fall apart anyway.

Sep. 5, 2020 at 3:04 a.m.

Leafs_and_Sens_Fan

Joined: Jan. 2020

Posts: 8,370

Likes: 2,275

This isn't the NBA.

Sep. 5, 2020 at 4:38 a.m.

Mitch_in_Vic

Thread Starter

Joined: Mar. 2017

Posts: 190

Likes: 24

Quoting: JaredOfLondon

Seriously, you dont get a starting goalie for player rights

Quoting: Claesson4Norris

Trade-to-sign deals are a thing and they have happened in the past where teams give up assets to get a shot at a player before hitting the UFA market. Yes, some have fallen apart because the player had no intention of signing there, but the deal would be contingent on the player agreeing to sign once the trade is complete. Part of it is being able to negotiate more favourable terms than in a more competitive UFA market. With the flat cap, trade-to-sign deals will also be about offloading cap space at the same time for the team receiving the UFA to be. Markstrom is the #1 goalie, UFA or otherwise, available in this years crop. If the leafs want an upgrade on Anderson, and they should after this years performance, they are going to have to give up something or take something back to get rid of Anderson. They had to give up a 1st rounder just to get rid of Marleau’s contract. This deal potentially costs them nothing and they get back one of the top goalies in the league. And like it or not, there are a large number of Goalies on this summers trade market, so most teams probably aren’t going to bite on Anderson when there are much better options out there.

Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan

This isn't the NBA.

This deal frees up Anderson‘s $5mil cap hit in order to sign Markstrom and gets them one of the current elite goalies in the league. The conditional picks potentially cost the leafs nothing, and if Markstrom posts a Vezina-finalist or a Vezina-winning season, the leafs would probably be looking at a ECF appearance even behind their very porous defence. The flat cap is going to force GM’s to change the way they approach UFAs and managing their internal salary structures. The leafs are really up against the wall with how little they have to spare and how many players they need to replace. And there is no reason this wouldn’t be a big win for the leafs.

Sep. 5, 2020 at 4:48 a.m.

JaredOfLondon

Joined: May 2019

Posts: 19,749

Likes: 7,382

Quoting: SDR

Anderson is NOT a true starter on a real contender, and he wouldn’t be the starter in Vancouver either. He might start as a 1B, but the end game for the Canucks would be for him to back up Demko in the latter half of the season before his contract expires.

Trade-to-sign deals are a thing and they have happened in the past where teams give up assets to get a shot at a player before hitting the UFA market. Yes, some have fallen apart because the player had no intention of signing there, but the deal would be contingent on the player agreeing to sign once the trade is complete. Part of it is being able to negotiate more favourable terms than in a more competitive UFA market. With the flat cap, trade-to-sign deals will also be about offloading cap space at the same time for the team receiving the UFA to be. Markstrom is the #1 goalie, UFA or otherwise, available in this years crop. If the leafs want an upgrade on Anderson, and they should after this years performance, they are going to have to give up something or take something back to get rid of Anderson. They had to give up a 1st rounder just to get rid of Marleau’s contract. This deal potentially costs them nothing and they get back one of the top goalies in the league. And like it or not, there are a large number of Goalies on this summers trade market, so most teams probably aren’t going to bite on Anderson when there are much better options out there.

This deal frees up Anderson‘s $5mil cap hit in order to sign Markstrom and gets them one of the current elite goalies in the league. The conditional picks potentially cost the leafs nothing, and if Markstrom posts a Vezina-finalist or a Vezina-winning season, the leafs would probably be looking at a ECF appearance even behind their very porous defence. The flat cap is going to force GM’s to change the way they approach UFAs and managing their internal salary structures. The leafs are really up against the wall with how little they have to spare and how many players they need to replace. And there is no reason this wouldn’t be a big win for the leafs.

You arnt getting a starter for the rights to another goalie. Your trade is nonsense

Sep. 5, 2020 at 6:48 a.m.

NHLfan10506

Joined: May 2019

Posts: 40,394

Likes: 18,425

This is well thought out plan...and would put VAN on better footing going forward.

A couple of things.
1. Sign and trades do happen in NHL (see Max Pacioretty).
2. If Markstrom signed, may have to be above market (since he is not picking team) and Toronto may only pay market price. If thats case, VAN would need to retain the difference on contract. That is probably not worth it for one-year of Andersen. Depends how much, I guess.
3. On the Eriksson/Schneider, both would have NTC. And even if they waived, Schneider's is a much easier buyout. NJD likely declines that one.
4. On the EDM deal, conditional picks attached to contract extensions were eliminated. Not clear if same applies to initial regular contract. But I would make that pick conditional on (a) him signing, or if that is also not allowed, (b) him playing X games.

Good post - enjoyed very much. Thanks

Sep. 5, 2020 at 7:29 a.m.

Timmah007

Joined: Jun. 2020

Posts: 8,634

Likes: 3,931

Easy pass for oilers.

Sep. 5, 2020 at 7:31 a.m.

ecupirate07

Joined: Jun. 2020

Posts: 9,277

Likes: 2,969

3.5 million x 4 years for a bust 1st rounder that had a good year in Europe? Aren’t y’all trying to get out from under bad contracts?

Sep. 5, 2020 at 9:25 a.m.

JoeForts

Joined: Apr. 2019

Posts: 67

Likes: 22

Lol ... and they say leaf fans are delusional.

Sep. 5, 2020 at 10:01 a.m.

#10

GrinReaper

Joined: Aug. 2020

Posts: 1,913

Likes: 562

Podkolzin has 2 yrs on his KHL deal nuks knew that when they drafted him won’t be in Vancouver till the 2021/2022 season
Edmonton not trading Jesse for a D prospect only for help in the top 9
The Leafs might give you a 5th or 6th for Markstroms right and flip Freddy in a separate deal after Markstrom signs a contract the new CBA has no condition on picks players wanted conditions removed as they felt it devalues them and the NHL wanted them gone as it was a major headache for them in the pause having to make rulings on this past yrs trades
The devils would take the deal if Eriksson only had 1 yr left your going to have to add a first to make your current deal work
Dallas moved on from Benn once already don’t see them making a deal to bring him back.

Sep. 5, 2020 at 10:40 a.m.

#11

ken_holland

Oilers GM

Joined: Apr. 2020

Posts: 1,584

Likes: 566

Unless they're RFA rights, which they're not, that's not happening
Oilers also decline

Sep. 5, 2020 at 4:00 p.m.

#12

Mitch_in_Vic

Thread Starter

Joined: Mar. 2017

Posts: 190

Likes: 24

Quoting: NHLfan10506

Thanks
Obviously trade-to-sign deals are always contingent on it being a market the player already is considering otherwise the deal falls apart. The details of these trades is always worked out in tandem with the details of the new contract. I think the leafs could make it happen at or just below market if they are willing to give him a NMC for the expansion draft and go a little longer on term. Honestly, Anderson was included because his historic playoff performances have reminisced his value to the point of I think most NHL GMs no longer see him as a true #1/starter. At best he is a starter on a bottom 1/3 team or maybe a 1b on a real contender going forward, but not at 5/yr. I see him, and a bunch of goalie insiders have said, more as a guy like Halak: competent goalie able to get you some wins, but not *THE* guy in crunch time.

The Eriksson has already waived his NTC, and Schneider still has ties to the Canucks ownership. I don’t see it being a problem.

I’m not married to the Edm trade, both are technically fringe NHLers at this point.

Sep. 5, 2020 at 4:33 p.m.

#13

Mitch_in_Vic

Thread Starter

Joined: Mar. 2017

Posts: 190

Likes: 24

Quoting: Timmah007

Easy pass for oilers.

and what do you think Jesse is worth?

Quoting: ecupirate07

3.5 million x 4 years for a bust 1st rounder that had a good year in Europe? Aren’t y’all trying to get out from under bad contracts?

Type-o. It was supposed to be 2.5x4. I fixed it now...

Quoting: JoeForts

Lol ... and they say leaf fans are delusional.

they are. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Quoting: GrinReaper

Podkolzin has 1yr left on his KHL deal, which is why I said he comes over in 2021/22 in the details...? 🤷🏼‍♂️
Tryamkin isn’t a prospect anymore, but I’m open to suggestions on what you think a mobile 6’7” Defenceman with a good first pass and is defensive sound is worth.
I have heard that about the new CBA, but I’m not married to the conditional picks either. The Leafs have a history of giving up 1st rounders to unload players they no longer want. Coughing up a first to dump Marleau on the canes is well beyond this trade. The leafs are able to move on a goalie who can’t get it done when it matters, in the hottest goalie market in a generation, and all it costs them is the rights for the #1 goalie in that market? I’d the rolls were reversed, I’d make that deal in a heartbeat.
So you think the Devils would rather pay Schneider 6x2 of actual money out ,in a flat cap world with potentially little to no gate money coming in the door, to backup Blackwood or spend more time in the minors making 6per, than pay the still serviceable (in a bottom 6 roll) Eriksson 4 over the next 2yr of actual money out (but with a cap hit of 6x2)? The operational cost certainty of Eriksson’s deal is a win for the Devils on its own and you are getting a young 20g/yr player. It might take a 1st to flat out dump Eriksson alone, but not when taking back NJ’s more expensive trash back

Quoting: ken_holland

Unless they're RFA rights, which they're not, that's not happening
Oilers also decline

Why? It worked with Pacioretty?
What do you thing JP is actually going to get the Oilers as a return. His value is all over the map and ranges from “bust” to “fringe NHLer with attitude issues” outside the minds of Edmonton fans. He’s basically Edmonton’s version of Jake Virtannen: a high pick that has struggled to live up to his draft slot and has questionable attitude/commitment. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Sep. 5, 2020 at 4:40 p.m.

#14

Mitch_in_Vic

Thread Starter

Joined: Mar. 2017

Posts: 190

Likes: 24

Quoting: JaredOfLondon

You arnt getting a starter for the rights to another goalie. Your trade is nonsense

After the Leafs bubble-exit, he’s not a starter any more... 🤣
Sounds like you overvalue Anderson and have zero idea what his return will be in this market... it’s a deal like this or giving up something to unload a $5mil goalie who can’t get it done in crunch time.

Sep. 5, 2020 at 4:56 p.m.

#15

JaredOfLondon

Joined: May 2019

Posts: 19,749

Likes: 7,382

Quoting: SDR

Dude, serious question, have you ever looked up what players rights are worth? Because they are never, and i mean never worth a starting goalie with a year left on his contract.
Ao you're either mystically ignorant or trolling. If the leafs want a goalie who is the same age as Andersen and been worse his entire career until this season but more expensive, they'll just wait till hes a free agent and then sign him and trade Andersen for futures.

Sep. 8, 2020 at 7:50 a.m.

#16

GrinReaper

Joined: Aug. 2020

Posts: 1,913

Likes: 562

Quoting: SDR

and what do you think Jesse is worth?

Type-o. It was supposed to be 2.5x4. I fixed it now...

they are. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Podkolzin has 1yr left on his KHL deal, which is why I said he comes over in 2021/22 in the details...? 🤷🏼‍♂️
Tryamkin isn’t a prospect anymore, but I’m open to suggestions on what you think a mobile 6’7” Defenceman with a good first pass and is defensive sound is worth.
I have heard that about the new CBA, but I’m not married to the conditional picks either. The Leafs have a history of giving up 1st rounders to unload players they no longer want. Coughing up a first to dump Marleau on the canes is well beyond this trade. The leafs are able to move on a goalie who can’t get it done when it matters, in the hottest goalie market in a generation, and all it costs them is the rights for the #1 goalie in that market? I’d the rolls were reversed, I’d make that deal in a heartbeat.
So you think the Devils would rather pay Schneider 6x2 of actual money out ,in a flat cap world with potentially little to no gate money coming in the door, to backup Blackwood or spend more time in the minors making 6per, than pay the still serviceable (in a bottom 6 roll) Eriksson 4 over the next 2yr of actual money out (but with a cap hit of 6x2)? The operational cost certainty of Eriksson’s deal is a win for the Devils on its own and you are getting a young 20g/yr player. It might take a 1st to flat out dump Eriksson alone, but not when taking back NJ’s more expensive trash back

Why? It worked with Pacioretty?
What do you thing JP is actually going to get the Oilers as a return. His value is all over the map and ranges from “bust” to “fringe NHLer with attitude issues” outside the minds of Edmonton fans. He’s basically Edmonton’s version of Jake Virtannen: a high pick that has struggled to live up to his draft slot and has questionable attitude/commitment. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Tryamkin has value that’s not my argument here, Edmonton has a long jam on LD position with 2 prospects ready to go and 2 a yr our at most 2 ready to go, Edmonton needs help on the wings or third line centre and that’s what there looking for in return for JP, Oilers don’t have depth at the RD and could be interested in a deal for a RD that could step into the lineup on a Entry level deal and a 2nd rounder for JP. As a oilers fan right now I don’t think JP has much value and I believe the player and agent feel the same his only option he has is to sign a 1 yr 900k deal in Edmonton with agreement if he still wants out Edmonton will deal him but it will be on him to work hard and play well enough to raise his value, I believe this has been Holland’s position all along that we wasn’t going to let a player or agent dictate his hand, there’s lots of blame to be had on both sides why we’re at this point with JP but I believe one of the biggest from his side was that he was forced to play with Lucic which he felt was hurting his development heard rumblings from inside sources but was never published.
My bad about stating Tryamkin as a prospect at this point I’d have him in more of a reclamation/wildcard as I’d put JP in the same category both players put in the right situation could be major wins for their current teams or be fringe NHLers, Van should bring him back having along with Myers on the backend having 2 guys with that much reach would be a huge plus, I liked Tryamkin in his first go around he looked like he was settling to be a decent player and was shocked when he left.

Sep. 8, 2020 at 5:13 p.m.

#17

Mitch_in_Vic

Thread Starter

Joined: Mar. 2017

Posts: 190

Likes: 24

Edited Sep. 8, 2020 at 7:04 p.m.

Quoting: JaredOfLondon

Quoting: GrinReaper

Not being totally abreast of Edm’s D-prospect positioning, I figured a guy that can come in and play now, might give them some more time for those players to mature and then deal Tryamkin for better assists later. I have little confidence in JB to make the moves needed to get Tryamkin into the Vancouver lineup and I feel the player and his Agent have soured on dealing with this management group and thier ineptitude. A change is needed for him, just like JP.

Sep. 9, 2020 at 8:12 a.m.

#18

GrinReaper

Joined: Aug. 2020

Posts: 1,913

Likes: 562

Quoting: SDR

No, but please link me to that official document you are referring back too as a reference, I’d love to see what rights are worth.

I must be reading the tea-leaves incorrectly with a UFA process that excludes the “courting window” this year, a flat cap and about 12 quality “starting” goaltenders currently on the market by trade or as a UFA. There are so many goalies on the trade market this year, that their value is dramatically reduced. I think teams are going to be faced with a lot of tough choices that will force them well out of the status-quo for the hockey world.. and trading UFA rights happens, here’s an article I found with 3seconds of googling: https://businessofhockey.wordpress.com/2016/06/22/trading-for-a-free-agents-negotiation-rights-is-worth-the-price/

Not being totally abreast of Edm’s D-prospect positioning, I figured a guy that can come in and play now, might give them some more time for those players to mature and then deal Tryamkin for better assists later. I have little confidence in JB to make the moves needed to get Tryamkin into the Vancouver lineup and I feel the player and his Agent have soured on dealing with this management group and thier ineptitude. A change is needed for him, just like JP.

I guess the easiest solution for JB would be not resign FANTENBERG and have Tryamkin and Benn battle it out for the 6-7 spot on the blue line watching the nuks in the playoffs I’d resign FANTENBERG and trade Benn I think Fantenberg is a better option over then Benn, I looked over Tryamkins # the last 3 yrs in the KHL and not sure many GM’s would be interested much like JP I feel they need to sign with their current teams and go out and raise their value.

Mitch_in_Vic liked this.

Sep. 14, 2020 at 5:43 a.m.

#19

GrinReaper

Joined: Aug. 2020

Posts: 1,913

Likes: 562

Quoting: SDR

If Vancouver decides to move on from Markstrom they could try to move his rights, but these aren’t trade and sign deals, if the leafs decide they want to target Markstrom before he hits the open market they could send Vancouver say a 5th rd pick for Markstrom rights, all this allows them to do is try to broker a deal with Markstrom before he hits then open market, the leafs would have zero knowledge if Markstrom would be interested in signing in TO or what the asking price would be as they can’t have and contact with the players agent or player before acquiring his rights as that would be tampering it’s just the leafs moving a late pick that has a very low value into ever turning into a player for a chance to negotiate with Markstrom before he becomes a UFA taking a shot in the dark if you want to call it, as for the conditions you have based on him signing and being up for a Vezina trophy that’s not a thing, you could have conditions like that in a trade if the player was a RFA but not a UFA and I believe conditions on trades have been done away with in the CBA, there is examples of the pick being upgrade to say a 3rd from the 5th if Markstrom were to sign. If Vancouver has chosen to move on from Markstrom and don’t resign him they lose him for nothing anyways so know ones going to give Vancouver anything for him other then a mid round pick as they have zero assurances he’ll even sign as I say it’s just a shot in the dark and hope the gamble pays off and van recoups a very small assist for his negotiating rights.

Page 1 of 1

DISPLAY SETTING

BETTING ODDS

LOCALE

ARCHIVE

CBA

CALCULATORS

FANTASY HOCKEY TOOLS

TOOLS

PLAYERS

WESTERN CONFERENCE

EASTERN CONFERENCE

INTERACTIVE FEATURES

Forums/Armchair-GM