That Paccioretty trade will not get it done. He is a good two way first line player, gonna need to add more

Quine? Ugh.

And no thanks on the patches trade. He's 32... I'd rather target Killorn out of Tampa Bay. Millions cheaper and plays the type of 2-way game that would compliment McDavid IMO.

Depending on what Vegas is up to, they might not be able to take the best deal possible (see: Nate Schmidt).

I do mention that I'm willing to bump the 2nd to a 1st so long as Vegas retains a bit more. I genuinely expect Edmonton to push hard for Raanta by the trade deadline: need an asset somewhere to make that possible.

Yes it does depend on what Vegas is willing to take, but I think it would benefit them if they just didn’t trade him and let him play this year. He played well during the playoffs, he showed he could be a valuable two way player.

Fourth line center that isn't Khaira and needs to really only play the penalty kill? There's an issue of affordability to be considered too.

I don't think any Tampa player is waiving to come to Edmonton given taxes, climate, and having just won a cup. Pacioretty's at least played in a higher-taxed market with a relatively similar climate, and it could be argued that Edmonton is closer to Vegas in terms of winning a cup than Tampa is. Both Killorn and Pacioretty have some inherent risk in declining with age, but I'm not super worried about Pacioretty given his term: Max put up nearly a point-per-game last season and has done nothing in Vegas but build upon his bad season in Montreal. I don't see many other ways of getting out of that awful Kassian deal while being able to upgrade the forwards up front. I'm all ears.

I think Vegas would want Nurse for Pacioretty

I’m just having trouble seeing a point behind adding max. Nuge and kahun can play top six lw spot. The term in his deal isn’t favourable kinda feels like a Neal 2.0. Better than Neal yea but age and term and cap hit I’d pass on

Your perspective on the Kassian deal is off, if you want to work on a problem I'd suggest you start there.

rather have haas over quine

No it's not. Until Holland moves that contract, it expires, or Neal is offloaded in some capacity, it will firmly be the second-worst contract on this team. I'd argue that Archibald's is the third-worst, and it it wasn't for Patrick Russell's inability to produce at the NHL level, I'd have him as the #4RW.

Overpaying for replaceable talent is a sin in this league, and it's one that Edmonton commits far too often for my liking. They overpaid Kassian in both term and AAV: with a possible Puljujarvi resurgence and Lavoie being less than 2 years away (could be as soon as training camp or next year's), Kassian's new contract has been nothing shy of a bad investment. All I have to do is look at his play outside of the small window in time where he was productive enough to push his price to where it is: he's an okay third-line forward, but comes with the risk of being suspended for chunks of the season or stuck in the penalty box. Would you rather have Kassian or Connolly?

Even if Puljujarvi flounders, Kassian should never have been a long-term option for a top-six winger. If his ask was too much, there were names on the market Edmonton would be much better off with in a similar role. More productive wingers that had more of a claim to a middle-six role than Zack were signed for less than he did this offseason. Covid be damned, it was still a bad investment.

Sharks would only move sorensen if it meant getting rid of his contract for a late pick or something like that. This kind of achieves the opposite. Would rather send him elsewhere where we don’t take on any extra cap.

Going after kass for being a bad contract feels like being too picky. He’s a solid option that can play anywhere in the line up to police the game his way which I’d rather see him in an oilers jersey than a rivals jersey even if that means paying him slightly more than the ideal amount. He’s a terrific skater tough as nails and very well liked in the dressing room. If want to trade him so be it but if the reason is because of his contract I’d have to say that’s for the wrong reasons.

Sorensen is cheaper and having a massive year so far in Sweden with24 points in 14 games. I think I’ll keep him over Chiasson.

Kassian is producing 1st line number and being paid 3rd line money. There's nothing remotely bad about that contract. Sure it would have been lower if signed after COVID became a thing, but there was no way Holland could have predicted that.

His career production is not first-line rate, and he quit producing at that rate when he signed his extension. Sample sizes.

There were 372 regular forwards in the NHL last year, 12 per team times 31 teams. Of those, Kassian was 58th in 5v5 P/60 (the top-93 players can be considered 1st liners). There were 193 forwards who earned more than $3.2M (AAV) last year, meaning that salary rate is a high-end 3rd line value.

Kassian is tied for 77th among NHL forwards for goals scored at 5v5 over the past 2 years, tied with guys like Barzal, Wheeler, Dadonov, Keller and Landeskog - all of whom played more minutes than he did. He's been full value for $3.2M. Whether he can keep that up over the next 4 years is anybody's guess, but even if he can't and gets relegated to the 3rd line he still won't be overpaid.

He has played a grand total of 14 games since signing the extension and was 5th on the team in 5v5 scoring... what were you saying about small sample sizes??

If you open up the range of your scope (such as increasing the sample size?) Kassian ranks 99th overall in terms of 5v5 G/60 and 160th over a two-year span in 5v5 P/60. Opening it up to 3 years pushes him to 202nd in 5v5 P/60 overall and a G5v5 G/60 of 132nd overall. How are you seeing 1st line production from this?

What I see is that his recent production (which is good, don't get me wrong) has caused a noticeable bump in his overall ranking as a forward in the NHL. However, Kassian had a very hot November 2019, going 6-4-10. The man had more goals that month than he tends to have points in a month. I'm not suggesting that these 10 points must be ignored in order to perceive what Kassian truly is - they hold some weight - but there's a strong recency bias reflected in his contract.

Over the three-year period, Kassian most closely compares (in terms of 5v5 P/60) with Drake Caggiula, Artturi Lehkonen, Nick Ritchie, Jesperi Kotkaniemi, and Warren Foegele. None of these men make over $2.5M, and those that signed new deals are on one-year deals. Obviously there's a covid factor here, but if these are the comparable players, how do you justify the term? How does he swing a four-year deal?

... and his salary will be something like 190th. Seems about right.


As I showed above, he isn't getting paid commensurate with his hot 2019. He's produced at a 3rd line pace over the past 3 years (2nd liner in terms of goals) and he's being paid like a 3rd liner over the next 4 years. It was a decent contract pre-COVID. It was signed right after the NHL announced that the cap would be between $84.5 - 88.5M for 2020-21, so its completely dishonest to compare it to COVID contracts.