Roy > Holl.
Kempe >>>> Engvall.

A 2nd isn't nearly enough to offset the difference.

Easy no from LA.

LA easily declines

Roy is the Kings best defenceman. No way he gets traded, especially for that price.

This is so overdone, A) Roy is the best defenceman to have won several make believe Norris Trophies by the age of 25 after 1 decent season. B) what a waste of assets. Holl is a good player, he makes 1 million and does exactly what we need him too.

Kempe is a good player but we don't really need him and spending a 1st for Roy over Holl is quite possibly not even an improvement, both have about the same amount of success and one did it while facing way tougher competition (Holl actually faces top competition, Roy got sheltered minutes).

This needs to stop.

theres nothing in this oackage that would even remotely interest LA, especially for those players

Sure the leafs easily could use Kempe and Roy, but the value isn't right here.

"1 million"?!?!?

His cap hit is exactly equal to his compensation: $2 million for each of the three years of his contract. He's about to turn 29, so he's three years older than Roy, and costs 3 times as much even if he's an equivalent player. So assuming that their on-ice value is currently the same, Roy = Holl plus the 2021 second.

I haven't really seen anything from Roy or Holl that makes me think theyre worth much.

The biggest appeal to having roy, is that hes a capable bottom 4 dman, with a cap hit of only 700k. Holl is the same (skill wise), if not, a tad bit worse. However, the cap hits are what differentiate the values the most in my opinion.

How long is Roy's contract?

Because people hate solid defensive D. They want goals and think that defenceman should score 20+ goals a season and provide perfect D. In other words people have no idea what they are talking about. Holl has been very solid, plays the position properly and does his job the way it should be done. People don't pay attention to the stupid mistakes guys like Dermott make because they like him.

If Roy is so amazing, (which I doubt completely) he is going to make way more than Holl starting next year. He's also much smaller which normally I don't care about but with Holl he's big, physical and can skate. 2 million for our #4 and shutdown guy is a fantastic value. No need to use good assets to bring in more expensive pieces.

He's an RFA after this year so he could be under contract for anywhere from 2 to 5 years or more.

Nobody (including me) said that Roy is "amazing"; you're putting words in our mouths in order to set up a counter-argument. What I said was "assuming that their on-ice value is the same," Roy is worth more than Holl. Similarly, there is nobody on our side saying that Roy "is going to make way more than Holl starting next year." We expect him to get a contract similar to Sean Walker's. On the other hand, if he DOES prove to be a much-better-than-random player, wouldn't you want him on the Maple Leafs?

I'm not saying that either team should trade Roy for Holl, in any permutation of the deal. As you and others point out, Holl does just what is expected of him at a very economical cost.

Finally, I'm perplexed by your statement that "[there's] no need to use good assets to bring in more expensive pieces." Sure there is, if they're an appreciable improvement on what you've got. As a general principle (i.e., with no relation to this subject), wouldn't you exchange Alex Kerfoot for Pierre DuBois?

Okay I want to say you are a very reasonable person on here and in no way do I mean to suggest you hold extreme opinions. However, I have seen countless posts where Roy is massively valued. Holl and a 2nd is a small pittance compared to some trades. Some have said it would need to be Liljegren or Sandin even. Which is ridiculous.

Roy is a late bloomer and at this point needs to A) face stiffer competition to prove he's as great as some say and B) do it for more than just one season. Same with Holl, no one who is at all reasonable will say he's a stud stay at home defender, but what can be said about him is that he was a very good #4 playing with Muzzin who had excellent stats (both advanced and traditional). While playing in a shutdown role against super hard competition and getting a lot of D zone starts.

So with that in mind, there isn't even a point to discussing a Roy for Holl trade. From TO's perspective there is no proof that it's an upgrade, and at 2 million, if Holl is exactly what he was last season, that is terrific value for the Leafs.

On a side note, I am completely done with the (The Leafs need any RHD from any team at all costs) crowd.

Everyone creates these Roy to Toronto trades with with returns ranging from "future considerations" to "Auston Matthews". The return that LA would need to see to consider trading him is more than Toronto should pay. Roy's value to LA is significantly higher than his trade value, so he will not be traded. It's that simple.

So let's stop with all these trade proposals. It's not going to happen.

Amen!

And I find every opinion you express on CF worth reading and always well reasoned and highly informed, so it should come as no surprise that I agree with everything you say in this last comment.

My esteemed colleague @tkecanuck341 accurately sums up the situation: the return LA would want for Roy "is more than Toronto should pay" due to Roy's value to the Kings, not necessarily his intrinsic value. My "Roy = Holl plus [Toronto's] 2021 second" formulation was meant to express the same opinion in a different and perhaps too simplistic manner. Roy and Holl should stay right where they are because they fit their respective teams' needs.

Cheers my friend! Have a great weekend!

You don't have to wish it on me -- it's going to be 89 degrees here tomorrow, or, with the wind-chill factor, 90.