we don't want him back anyways, were doing better without him. like if he had the chance to come back, I think that we should say no

If Tavares stayed Barzal wouldnt have been a superstar

yep

At the very least they wouldn't have acquired Pageau.

He didn't deserve the hate.... if Matthews went to Arizona i wouldn't be angry, i'd be disappointed a bit, but I realize that's his hometown team.

Uhhhh...

Barzal w/Tavares: 22 G, 63 A, 85 pts.
Barzal average w/o Tavares over past 3 seasons (I spread this one out over a full 82 games...): 21 G, 54 A, 75 pts.

I think there's a pretty solid argument that could be made that Barzal would be even more of a star if Tavares had stayed...

It's almost as if Tavares makes players around him better...

Barzal and Tavares played in a run and gun system in 17-18. Barzal would put up 100 pts if he played in a more offensive minded system, he actually was having the best season of his career until Trotz put Leo komarov on his line after Lee’s injury.

Tavares has made the players around him better in the past, but he never played with barzal so there goes that argument. Tavares on the islanders wouldn’t affect barzal much. They’re both centers.

if tavares stayed at the 12.5Mx8 he was offered, the rest of the team would have been radically different, be it trades, signings etc.

hard to speculate

Hard to argue with that reasoning. Matthews for sure would be as successful he is today if Tavares wasn't on the team. It's almost as if Marner playing with Tavares and having a career year was a fluke. It's almost as if Marner now being able to play directly with Matthews because of the dual threat of two scoring lines doesn't help Matthews. It's almost as if Tavares being a 200' player and mentoring Matthews isn't having an effect whatsoever. There's no way that Barzal would be better if him and Tavares were on the same team. No sir!

Matthews would 100% be the player he is without Tavares. Not sure why you’re bringing up marner, he’s a winger. I don’t know why people think Tavares is a 200 ft player - he’s always been bad defensively and his last 3 years with Toronto are no different. He’s an elite offensive player, but he’s actually a liability in his own end.

Not trying to sh*t on Tavares, but Tavares on the isles wouldn’t affect Barzals production/impact.

So do you think Frans Nielsen would have put up the same numbers without Tavares on the team a few years ago?

Yes they’re both centers.

That's exactly my point. So by your logic, a line is just as effective regardless of the other lines on a team?

David Krejci would be putting up the same numbers without Patrice Bergeron?

No Pageau, no Nelson (top-6 centers would've been Tavares and Barzal), maybe no Lee. Would've made us a worse team.



Representing most Isles fans, I'll say this again for the billionth time. He does deserve the hate. Not for leaving, but the way he left.

Yes Krejci would be putting up the same numbers without Bergeron. Can you explain what Tavares on the islanders would do for Barzal?

I really hope you're not trolling me right now. But there is a significant amount that can be done when you have a 1-2 punch.

1) Home Ice Advantage - Last Change. Having the last change allows you to put your best offensive weapons out in certain situations. So in this case if Tavares was out on the last shift and the islanders won the puck possession down to the opposing zone with a faceoff against the other teams top players or top defensive players, you can now throw out your offensive threats.
2) PowerPlay - Load up your offensive threats on the top powerplay and play them over a minute every time.
3) Possession off of draw - Tavares is key on the draw, this increases puck possession and creates more offensive opportunities
4) Splitting of other teams key defensive players - Having the dual threat requires teams to either choose a line to roll top defenders against or split them.
5) Specifically Tavares for Barzal - Provide direct mentorship for a guy likely to take over as the teams next leader.

Brock Nelson has provided low end 1C value for the last two seasons. None of the things you listed would have increased Barzals production much besides the PP, but it still wouldn’t be much of a difference. Winning faceoffs doesn’t always lead to more puck possession, there are teams that win a majority of their faceoffs and still have awful possession metrics

Who you play with affects production more than the quality of the competition. So Barzal would put up more points with better wingers against top pairing D than with lesser wingers against 3rd pairing D. Anders Lee is well regarded as one of the best leaders in the game, I think he’s doing a great job mentoring Barzal.

The argument was “having more star players is good”, not “Barzal was only good because of Tavares”

This is really pissing me off but whats this barzal superstar thing. Is he great? Yes. A star? Depends how you define that. But is there any way he classifies as a superstar? No. Does he have the potential to get there? Certainly. But hes not there yet.