Its amazing that ppl think just because you want something, you only have to pay a fair price to get it and the other side has to accept...

What world do you live in?

Detroit is within their right to ask for the moon if they want to. Your the team going to them for the player, not the other way around.

The only incentive for Detroit to come down in price is IF they are also inclined to move him. From what we've been told, that isnt the case. So the GM and in this case the fans here on CF would be silly to settle for anything less than an overpayment.

Just because the wings may see the value in trading bertuzzi doesn't mean they will lose him for cheap. People act like the team has only two options, to accept the trade offered or sign him to an 8 year deal.

If they do decide to move him there are 30 other nhl teams.

Hirvonen is the prospect. If you haven’t seen him play you wouldn’t know how good he is.

Sports medical science is not going to give you a 4 year warranty like he’s a household appliance.

Who’s to say this isn’t an overpayment? It’s considerably more than Kapanen returned which was thought to be robbery.

But which ones are offering more? Personally I think if a team did offer more I’d tell Stevie to fill his boots and make another gm look bad.

Maybe I’m a bit stricter on prospect grades but Hirvonen was massively hyped by Toronto at the start of the season (where vast majority of his production came). I’ve actually caught a few of his Liiga games but I’m not going to claim to be a Finish hockey follower. I’d rate Berggren as a A-/B+ prospect and reserve A for blue chippers like Seider. So no I don’t see Hirvonen in the same tier as Berggren and I also don’t buy the narrative “if you’ve seen him play you’d agree”. What kind of argument is that? How about you provide a scouting report to justify the claim or some independent scouting from HP or Athletic to confirm it?

Who said anything about a warranty? You’re just being salty because I called you out for an illogical post and can’t defend yourself. There’s a reason why teams have medical staff…

While I agree with the title, you also have to understand that Detroit has no reason to trade him. That means you’d have to overpay to get him.

That’s fine, we probably won’t. YOU WON’T GET WHAT YOU THINK FOR BERT EITHER. It’s always a back and forth and usually an agreement in the middle.

But dear lord some of these low ball offers for Bert… it’s like some of you people are basing your trades off of NHL21 franchise mode, where you can easily rip off the CPU. Go look at the hundred Bert to Toronto posts over the last week alone. Engval, Dermot, and Mikheyev thrown in almost every trade. I’m jumping for joy one of these players finally wasn’t included in a trade for Bert…

Bertuzzi stinks. Next breathe, puts him on his 1st line on his ACGM.

That’s about a half of the ACGMs. OP wants a player and then whatever respective fan base says it takes X and then OP berates said player.

I said if you watched him play because his stats are deceiving. Played limited minutes Till about the 2nd half of last season with assat. He’s also a pest and great in all 3 zones. Very high probability to be a middle six C/W in the nhl.

Hirvonen is a solid prospect. There are about 4-5 other prospects in that same range that he could be replaced with and I would be perfectly fine with that. Personally I would keep hirvonen over abramov and even Abruzzese.

Didn’t see the last paragraph there. Not salty just pointing out that he had an injury that took him out an entire season. One that can not only be re aggravated but could in fact affect his game permanently. There’s always a degree of risk.

honestly I think that trade would already be my max giving up for bertuzzi depending on how highly both teams have abramov. I understand detroit fans POV but its just not worth the risk/price imo to pay much more for him

Yes Yzerman is smart and he was over 30 when he won his first cup. So he is going to base an opinion on age alone. Bertuzzi has 2 21goal seasons and was on pace for 30when he got injured. In an 82 game season that doesn't mean much but in a 56 game season that is significant. So trading a player like Bertuzzi below his value before seeing him play after an injury because he will be 30 when Detroit is contending. How smart is that? Do you really think Toronto is the only team that wants Bertuzzi.

Just because you think you know Yzerman. How many cap dumps has Yzerman taken as a GM? Before you bring up Staal really isn't a cap dump yes Detroit got a 2nd to take him but they needed another LHD and he played in every single game last season and averaged over 18mins a game. Now Yzerman not taking on any cap dumps I don't agree with especially since we will have at least 2 more seasons of a flat cap. just like last season there are plenty of players with 1yr left that teams are looking to unload. Some who knows Yzerman isn't going to make a statement about him taking on dumps because he has never really done it.

A comment by AyyPavy kind of opened my eyes. Now I do think Detroit would trade Bertuzzi and it wouldn't be anything crazy I think a 1 for 1 Bertuzzi for Sandin would do it. This is where the TML fans all go crazy because they don't wan to give up Sandin on about on the same level Detroit fans do ant to give up Bertuzzi.

U respect everyone's opinion?

I think Sandin for Bertuzzi in a 1 for 1 is more than fair. But I also think that Sandin might be the replacement for Reilly if he is asking for the moon. I think for that reason dubas may decide to shift his focus to a different player.

There are plenty of teams in a position to move players this off season. I think many of them would come much cheaper. Dvorak, rackell, forsberg and tarasenko come to mind. I think Bertuzzi or garland would probably be the better fits depending on his contract ask and cost to acquire.

Pretty decent ufa class as well.

I just took one look at the trade and wondered why it was getting **** on. It’s a decent offer. Maybe the title is a bit offensive but you have to admit that redwings fans shoot down everything. To me this is a win/win.

Toronto gives up assets they can afford to move, if they need to make a deadline deal they still have the top tier prospects to deal.

Detroit picks up a 1st a 2nd and in my opinion a solid prospect. They also get roughly 5m in cap space to bring in another 1st and possibly more. Another team might want to send money back. It’s not a horrible deal for either side. Especially with Toronto’s track record in the playoffs.

He started on the top line and played over KK. He had a slow second half so I don’t really agree with your utilization but I do agree on him being a pesk but wonder how effective he will be when playing in the NHL at that size for his style. I could see him being a B prospect like I said not a B+/A-.


Nothing in life is going to predict what can happen in the next four years. Like I said, he routinely gets checkups and any team doing due diligence is going to have access to that if a deal is to materialize so less of a risk. Could he re-injury it? Sure, he could also come back and play 100% the next four years.

No doubt, but it is an issue. Players coming off of major injuries especially back or knee related are risks. It will affect his value, by how much I don’t know. But my point wasn’t his trade value it was his value to the redwings. His injury, his age and the combination of return and cap space return make him an appealing target to move. But there’s also the human element. All in all it’s an above market value trade.

Wings (IF THEY TRADE BERTUZZI) WILL get full value & more..why?

Bertuzzi is a playoff player style
Young & marchand lite
Pain in azz to play against
Cheap for quality age & production (now& future)


Mostly cuz Steve Yzerman is likely the best GM IN NHL & SMARTER than Dubas..sorry baby buds but wings fans are right .. But enjoy ur cup drought ✌

Detroit......Detroit gets to choose if its the right amount of overpay to accept or not.

Either way this wasn't in regards to the above trade, rather the idea if telling Detroit fans that they wont be getting what they want out of the deal.

Thats the beauty of owning the players rights, they can choose whatever they want to do. So yeah, they'll be getting what they want or they simply keep the player.

The fans don’t choose… I think that’s the point. Returns on players are usually lower than what fans expect.

Go back and reread that I didn't say everyones.

This is what I said "There are Toronto fans that even if I don't agree with them I still respect their opinion."

It's usually quite different unless they know a piece already

We're literally on a Armchair GM site. The whole point is that we role play what we'd do if we were the GM's. My point remains, you don't tell the other party what they have to expect when they hold all the chips.