Eric Engels

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Wreckless

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Quoting: Khalenix

Based on what comps for KK? The numbers are not in his favour, should be a pretty simple negotiation at close to my numbers, based on actual comps from recent years.

I think Bergevin will be looking at something like 6x$5.75mm for Suzuki.

Aug. 27, 2021 at 10:15 a.m.

PittsburghModelMyAss

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Im just curious as to how you came up with that number for KK

Aug. 27, 2021 at 10:18 a.m.

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Wreckless

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Quoting: TheGHANDI90

Im just curious as to how you came up with that number for KK

Eriksson Ek the closest comp in the $81.5mm cap ceiling era. A solid model for KK to strive towards and get paid after his 2 year bridge is up. You could also make the case that KK is younger and 1 year less pro experience works against him, but better playoff performance (albeit at times scratched) works in his favour.

Aug. 27, 2021 at 10:18 a.m.

Andycheng14

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also byron is not on ltir he will be back in like 6 weeks

Aug. 27, 2021 at 10:21 a.m.

PittsburghModelMyAss

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Quoting: Wreckless

Eriksson Ek the closest comp in the $81.5mm cap ceiling era. A solid model for KK to strive towards and get paid after his 2 year bridge is up.

The difference is JEE had 30pts in 100+ games at the time he signed that bridge deal. KK, altho in my mind isn't worth much atm, is probably going to get more than 2mil

Aug. 27, 2021 at 10:22 a.m.

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Wreckless

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Quoting: Andycheng14

also byron is not on ltir he will be back in like 6 weeks

5-6 months. Hip surgery.

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Aug. 27, 2021 at 10:22 a.m.

iLoveMTL4Eva

Mtl Toronto

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Quoting: Andycheng14

also byron is not on ltir he will be back in like 6 weeks

wrong

Aug. 27, 2021 at 10:23 a.m.

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Wreckless

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Quoting: TheGHANDI90

The difference is JEE had 30pts in 100+ games at the time he signed that bridge deal. KK, altho in my mind isn't worth much atm, is probably going to get more than 2mil

Not sure what the argument is that his agent can make for more. At the end of the day, you need comps to be able to justify that. They aren’t there.
Compare the two seasons prior to the bridge for both KK and JEE. Standard practice in these negotiations.

Aug. 27, 2021 at 10:26 a.m.

#10

ricochetii

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For KK there's no benefit to short changing him on this contract. You want to show you have faith and believe he will be worth X amount, and make him want to go out and earn it.

Aug. 27, 2021 at 10:32 a.m.

#11

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Wreckless

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Quoting: ricochetii

For KK there's no benefit to short changing him on this contract. You want to show you have faith and believe he will be worth X amount, and make him want to go out and earn it.

Your opinion for “short changing” is based on what? Use actual comps. And sorry dude, but if GMs (or any employer, for that matter) thought like that, they’d be very bad at their jobs. Those with less food tend to be hungrier. Go out and fight for your next contract. Never be satisfied.

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Aug. 27, 2021 at 10:40 a.m.

#12

ricochetii

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Quoting: Wreckless

For a short term bridge players often get the benefit of the doubt. The other strategy can work too, but with KK, he's already a hard worker. Carrot before the stick.

Aug. 27, 2021 at 10:52 a.m.

#13

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Quoting: ricochetii

For a short term bridge players often get the benefit of the doubt. The other strategy can work too, but with KK, he's already a hard worker. Carrot before the stick.

KK deserves more I would imagine somewhere between 2.25 and 3 on a 3 or 4 year bridge but I personally would rather bet on him long term and go 4.25-4.75 x 8 and hope he breaks out at the same time you lock in those 2 years of UFA as well at a phenomenal cap hit.

As for Staal, like I said before I wouldn't bring him back if you paid me to. He was ok in the playoffs but a total tire fire in the regular season. If he is your 3C for an entire season then you are not making the playoffs.

Aug. 27, 2021 at 10:59 a.m.

#14

habs_need_Scoring

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Quoting: Campabee

I agree on the staal front for the most part, but i dont think he would stay in the 3c spot all year think by the 20-30 game mark Poehling slots in, what it allows is not to rush it, if he has a great camp i could see poehling starting in that spot. Its time to give the young games a bit of runway and see how they do, but not the worst idea to have some insurance.

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Aug. 27, 2021 at 11:03 a.m.

#15

Thread Starter

Wreckless

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Quoting: ricochetii

For a short term bridge players often get the benefit of the doubt. The other strategy can work too, but with KK, he's already a hard worker. Carrot before the stick.

The primary issues with KK seem to me to be work ethic, hunger, and consistency. The 8 year deal that Eriksson Ek just signed is a pretty massive carrot. The point of the carrot analogy is for the carrot to be ahead of you driving you forward. Not to get dumped unearned carrots in your lap before you’ve actually arrived.

Also, if north of $3mm over two years is a “stick,” then I want to work where you’re working. A slightly less juicy less plump carrot, sure. But a stick? Nah…

Aug. 27, 2021 at 11:04 a.m.

#16

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Quoting: habs_need_Scoring

I don't mind insurance but there are better options for a depth 3C than Staal

Aug. 27, 2021 at 11:05 a.m.

#17

habs_need_Scoring

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Quoting: Campabee

I don't mind insurance but there are better options for a depth 3C than Staal

always better options, but may not be as cheap.

Aug. 27, 2021 at 11:07 a.m.

#18

Shanesaw9

Habs 2010

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I like these D pairings... I think Wideman was only signed as a Plan B if things don't work out with Norlinder. Looking at the current roster there is absolutely a need for a player like Norlinder so I hope he has a good camp.

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Aug. 27, 2021 at 11:18 a.m.

#19

PittsburghModelMyAss

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Quoting: Campabee

Why the heck wld KK sign for 8 years at 21, that wld just be bad managing on his part. He MAY be inclined to sign the 6x26 that couturier signed and that wld take him to 28 where he cld be a UFA and get another 6-7 year deal. He won't do an 8 yr one mark my words

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Aug. 27, 2021 at 11:18 a.m.

#20

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Quoting: Shanesaw9

I also like the D!

Quoting: Wreckless

I know you ignore me but if you want a comparison I think KK's agent would use Faska as a comp. He had 78 points in his first 204 games compared to KK's 62 in his first 171 games. They also had a similar PPG average at .36 compared to Faska at .38 and given inflation I think 2.25-3 is a logical range.

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Aug. 27, 2021 at 11:20 a.m.

#21

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Quoting: TheGHANDI90

6 x 26 walks him to UFA status, it would have to be 7 or 8 years to buy UFA years since 21 + 6 is 27.

Aug. 27, 2021 at 11:20 a.m.

#22

ricochetii

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Quoting: Wreckless

For the sake of $600k he shouldn't sign for more than 1 year. If he has a breakout season, now you have to lock him and Suzuki up next season with only Chiarot and Kulak coming off the books, and Romanov and Evans as RFA's (who I think are both arbitration eligible).
He's worth at least $2.5M and 2 years just to push his next contract past that.

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Aug. 27, 2021 at 11:25 a.m.

#23

PittsburghModelMyAss

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Quoting: Campabee

6 x 26 walks him to UFA status, it would have to be 7 or 8 years to buy UFA years since 21 + 6 is 27.

I am aware but like i just said... in my mind he would much prefer to go the Couturier route and sign another big deal at 27-28 instead of signing for 8yrs now is my guess.

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Aug. 27, 2021 at 11:29 a.m.

#24

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Quoting: TheGHANDI90

I am aware but like i just said... in my mind he would much prefer to go the Couturier route and sign another big deal at 27-28 instead of signing for 8yrs now is my guess.

He probably would prefer to go that route but the Habs likely push for 8 years with slightly higher AAV. IF they go long term lol, but a bridge is most likely.

Aug. 27, 2021 at 11:31 a.m.

#25