My eyes are burning. What is this. Somebody please help me.

If Marner was a centre I’d make this trade. For a 10 mill winger with 4 years left, kinda scares me a bit.

Toronto shouldn’t do this and neither should Ottawa. Just try to watch some Pinto this upcoming year and let me know what u think

ya , no one is going to give up anything close to this for a overpaid, RW that disappears during playoffs.

Thanks for your input, I learned alot....about you.

I know Pinto is a stud. We still have no need for him.

Split up MnM and Marner will produce again in the playoffs.

Marner has an one track mind playing with Matthews and it's easy to defend.

Why would this happen? They are in the same division and both will be fighting for the playoffs come next season

Seriously what is this?
- $6.5 x 4 years for Subban???
- We have absolutely no need for Brännström.
- We ain't gonna gamble on a contract like White. He is overpaid compared to what he brings. We don't need that at all.
- Pinto is a stud, but we don't need him. We have Kämpf as our 3C.
- We are not trading Marner.

Yeah split up the arguably second best duo in the league. Seriously Matthews won the Rocket and Marner finished 4th in the Art Ross race, but you suggest splitting them up. Nylander and Tavares finished last season on fire when playing together. They didn't start the season well when they had to play with Vesey and Mikheyev until they brought in Galchenyuk and he settled in nicely. Nylander's last 16 GP, 4 G and 12 A while JT had 9G and 14A his last 19 games. But split them up, that is probably the best route to go...

Marner starts with either Tkachuk, Stützle or Chabot and Ottawa won't move them so the trade is already dead before it even can materialize.

No one is going to give you value for a 10.9 aav contract. You'd have to take a massive loss in value to move it.

if marner chokes again they need a top 6 playoff warrior in return.

I don't get where people say Marner disappears in the playoffs. His last 19 playoff games including bubble he has 17 points, the exact same as Matthews. The problem with that line was Hyman only had 5 points, so who really disappeared.

Leafs aren't moving Marner anyways. Nylander will go long before Marner ever does.

Marner was on pace for 30 goals last season if it was 82 games. How is that a one track mind? People make comments about this kid and don't look at the numbers. Top 4 in league scoring race, 2nd best 2 way winger in league (Marchand). I'm not positive but a think he was 6th in takeaways and if he played the last game of the regular season he would have lead the league in ice time 2 years in a row for forwards. Not to mention his the only player on the leafs that's on the #1 unit in every situation.

Subban : no way Toronto should overpay him
Brannstrom : kinda redundant with Sandin so yeah no point to target him
White : not as overpaid as some may think but also not the type of contract Toronto should add
Pinto : not sure what you mean with Kampf but it's more the fact that Toronto has Matthews and Tavares

I'd say the value is there for Marner vs his contract (pretty good return) but Toronto should look to trade him differently if it comes to that

But if you take out White's contract, then Marner loses a lot of value here because Toronto creates a lot of cap space with that move and Ottawa takes it all.

Let's be straight, the value isn't there at all because there is only two pieces that interest Toronto. White is overpaid, lets get that straight too. He has been terrible since he signed his contract and the Leafs would go nowhere near him. He is a decent player but leafs cant gamble on a player with such a contract absolutely no chance he is in the deal. Brännström is like you said redundant with us having Sandin. We already have a 3C that is on a great contract so there is no need to acquire Pinto who would play the exact same role and would need a substantial raise once his ELC is done. We have no direct need for him. We would take Chabot to replace Rielly or add another winger in Tkachuk or Stützle, your other pieces don't really interest us as we are in win now mode. This would be a horrible trade for the Leafs and horrible offseason in general.

The value of something and achieving your goals is 2 completely different things. I see people mixing that regularly

It's not because something doesn't fit your needs that the value isn't there. For example, if someone proposes you to buy a 2 places sports car but it doesn't fit your needs at all because you have 4 kids, you can't say "sorry you car is worthless" or "you car isn't worth much to me". No you simply say it doesn't answer your needs.

Yes White is overpaid, but based on polls on the subject, 70% of people think his AAV should be between 3.0 and 4.0 so about 1.25 overpaid on average. Now the question is how much overpaid Marner is? Personally, not a big fan of having White in the trade because it lowers the value of the Sens package (always better when you take no salary in return)

Brännström might be redundant, doesn't change the value of the asset one iota, like I have explained at the beginning of this post

Again, "no need to acquire Pinto"... no argument whatsoever about the value but all about your team needs. This makes your premise "the value isn't there at all" totally erroneous

Comparing hockey players and sports cars aren't the same thing at all, let's get that out of the way first. As for 70% of people saying his contract AAV should be between $3M-$4M is completely irrelevant. He is overpaid for what he produces, and while he still is a decent hockey player, top nine most likely on most teams, he doesn't fit in at all with what we are trying to build. We need people on cheap contracts that are moveable if they don't perform. If White was acquired on 50% retention, it would be a completely different story. Brännström isn't as valuable as he was when you acquired him. He has showed a lot of flaws in his defensive game, not much unlike Sandin, which is why we have no need for him. He isn't as valuable as he once was + we have absolutely NO need for him. We would rather take a player like Connor Brown than Brännström. Pinto is a really solid prospect that likely becomes a 3rd line centre in the league. We already have a 3 line centre, and while Pinto likely becomes a more high scoring player than Kämpf, it is not yet determined that he will be as good defensively and responsible for defensive zone draws like Kämpf is going to be for us. The need for him is extremely little thus his value doesnt really increase the overall value for the trade. You have to start looking at the potential pieces we would need if we moved on from Marner after the season. We would obviously need a top six right winger to replace him, an upgrade on our current top six left wing and a potential upgrade on defense. A package including Stützle, Brown and Zub would be much more interesting than what the OP presented. That would be something that satisfies our needs as a contender, rather than just some throw in pieces that are good players/prospects but don't fit our roster at all.

I think I'll stop here. It doesn't seem like you understood much, if anything, of what I have tried to explain you with that example.

It was a pretty simple explanation that anybody with a bit of reasoning could understand.. NEEDS and VALUE are TWO different things.

Based on quickly scanning the rest of your post, this seems to really go over your head, for some reason.

I don't understand how I can make it clearer for you to understand. Does the players in the trade have value? absolutely. But, they aren't interesting pieces for the Leafs at all, thus the value of the pieces aren't close to what we value Marner at. Does that make sense to you at all? I don't understand how I have to explain this to you. It is pretty simple for everyone to understand. Marner's value > The pieces proposed in this trade. Hope this helps. Really weird that you keep debating this honestly.

I initally said "I'd say the value is there for Marner vs his contract (pretty good return)"

This was your reply : "Let's be straight, the value isn't there at all"

I mean, based on the words used here, it means what it means LOL

I am not keeping on debating at all, I have said last post that I want to stop here. I am actually the one trying to end the discussion lol because I know it won't get anywhere. You just don't get it

I'll repeat once again to help :

NEEDS and VALUE are TWO different things.

It's not because something doesn't answer YOUR needs that it changes the market value at all.

And my statement is correct. The overall value from the pieces from Ottawa doesn't come close to match the overall value of Mitch Marner, thus the value isn't there at all. What is there to be so confused about? What I meant is literally what I wrote. I think you are the one that lacks reading comprehension.

Well, my fault as I didn't read your post #20 after the first sentence because I wanted to stop there (first sentence was total non-sense vs what I have tried to explain). So now that I have read the post, I see more how you (un)value these pieces. With that post #20, your initial statement makes more sense... Based on your post #18, I really thought it was ONLY because it didn't fit the Leafs needs but now I see that it's ALSO because of uninformed outsider opinions, particularly on Pinto.

I think you're really overvaluing Marner's value in the OP scenario because AFTER this season, he'd have only 3 years left at 10.9 AAV and another playoffs failure on his resume

So, "a package including Stützle, Brown and Zub would be much more interesting than what the OP presented" shows that you're dreaming in Technicolor.

Anyway, it was fun while it lasted. Thank you.