Rather have Othmann at $925k for 3 years than Miller. Dude looks like he can step in next year and be fantastic.

Othmann’s been fantastic in juniors, no way we move on from him till we see what he has at the pro level.

First of all, Drury is now likely to be called up due to Trocheck’s injury, so he is not available, now or next year. Drury also likely steps into the lineup full time next year, so Canes pass on that aspect as well. Secondly, while JK can play wing, he is so much better at Center, and that is where he will stay.

Rangers and Caps pass on those offers.

I don't think we will trade Horvat

I love Drury but I think his ceiling is Horvat. I’d probably take this deal as it provides extra insurance both this year and next year if Troch leaves. I’d probably counter with a 2nd and a 5th instead of the 1st tho if we’re losing Drury.

I mean that’s a fair comment.

In my opinion, lots of players excel at the junior level in their draft plus one season but still take a few years to translate that success to the NHL level, if they do at all.
Othmann is definitely a good prospect which is why I included him in this deal, if the Canucks are trading Miller and reports state the cost starts at an elite prospect and a 1st, I think it’s got to be one of either Schneider or Othman and Rangers fans really don’t want to part with Schneider.
I think there are only a handful of teams that should be in on Miller and I think the Rangers are a team close enough to contention that they make sense as a trading partner. I can understand your reluctance to want to part with Othmann though.

I can see why people would be reluctant to trade Othmann but that is the type of prospect that Vancouver would want in any Miller trade. The Canucks won’t trade a player of Miller’s caliber for prospects that teams are not reluctant to part with.
As I mentioned in an above post, I think the Rangers are one of the few teams that make sense to part with some good assets for a player like Miller, you guys have a good team over there that could be ready to make some noise in the post season.

I mean you are certainly entitled to your opinion, however I disagree with most of it.
I have seen similar, if not the same, trade proposals in the past and all but the NYR trade tend to fairly positive (relatively speaking to Capfriednly AGM’s) responses to them.
As for the Rangers trade, it’s going to take a prospect that a team really doesn’t want to part with to acquire Miller. For the Rangers I see those prospects as Othmann and Schneider.

I don’t think we will either, but I think we should if we can get the right return.

The issue with the Horvat trade is that Horvat is a C. Aho - Trocheck - Staal - Kotkaniemi is already one of, if not, the deepest center core(s) in hockey. Another winger would be ideal. He'd be probably the 4C, if not playing on the wing.

Trocheck isn't meant to be out long term. Just means Stepan will play 4C

https://twitter.com/WaltRuff/status/1494871614533558278?s=20&t=l16qqDdyPshHFnppohq8FQ

Personally wouldn’t move those two guys. Rangers are not as close as people think they are despite what the record indicates. Miller isn’t signed long term and we wouldn’t be able to afford to resign him anyway. Plus I’d prefer to avoid adding another almost 30 year old to the roster. I think 10 years of Othmann and Schneider is far superior then anything Miller can do for us in 1.5 years because I don’t see us winning a cup and that’s the only scenario where he is worth trading for.

Very fair comment and one I completely agree with.
If you don’t think you stand a good chance to win it all, you don’t part with significant assets for a player like Miller. If their GM feels like they are, that’s when those types of deals make sense.

Not sure if the Canucks would take a 2nd and a 5th instead of a 1st because Drury has been rumored to be on his way out of the Canes organization because he's more of a B+ prospect rather than a legit A-level prospect

Horvat as the 4C, smh

He doesn't beat out Aho. He doesn't beat out Trocheck. Staal won't be moved from 3C for love nor money. He's the 4C

He probably doesn't beat out Trocheck, but he most definitely beats out Staal, that's where I have to say you're wrong. No other Canes fan would try to make this argument besides you because it, like you, is ridiculous

No, he doesn't beat out Staal. If Staal was going to be beaten out of that 3C spot, Kotkaniemi would already be there. Staal's used as a defensive C man, and he's miles better than anyone else in this conversation at it.

Also, you think no other Canes fan would say Staal won't move from the 3C spot? @Ecupriate07 @evelutions2 will both tell you the same thing. Staal will not move from 3C for love nor money.

Horvat is better than KK, that's the difference, but we can agree to disagree

Is he? Kotkaniemi is scoring at 5v5 rate similar to Auston Matthews and Nathan MacKinnon... really want to make this argument? KK's had an INSANE year, but because he's a depth piece in a smaller market, no one will notice him. (Look it up on NST if you want)

Despite those numbers, KK has still been somewhat inconsistent this season, and don't try to argue his lack of ice time in his favor because if he was truly playing as well as you suggest, he'd be getting more of it. Bottom line is that it doesn't sound like the market for KK is all that hot, and that's not because he is untouchable by the Canes

I think it’s a fair statement to say they might not take a 2&5 instead of a 1 but I have yet to see a rumor that Drury is on the way out of the organization. Quite the contrary - he’s not a high end prospect but he’s projecting as a middle 6C and likely fills Staals role longer term. Canes FO and coaching staff love the kid and every chance he’s gotten he’s made it hard on them to send him back down but bc of organizational depth especially at C there’s no room for him. He’ll be on the squad full time next year tho barring putting him in a trade like this for an already established NHLer.

That's your poor assumption. KK's been FANTASTIC since he moved to C. If you're going to argue he didn't play well against Toronto, Ottawa or Boston in the recent games like some other idiot did, HE WAS ON COVID PROTOCOL! He's been ULTRA consistent, and he's still scoring. The teams podcast has said the team has had interest in KK, and the team don't want to move him. So, in both regards, you're incorrect.

The reason Kotkaniemi doesn't get more Time is because... where's he going to play? He's not displacing Trocheck. Staal isn't coming off the shutdown line... KK's been fantastic. Don't try and argue that because he's not getting ice time, he's not playing well, because you KNOW that's wrong.

Again, you and I are simply taking opposite sides of an argument with no middle ground to break the stalemate. You have not demonstrated any ability to critique your own team like many fans are capable of doing, because despite being cup contenders this season, they still aren't perfect. Jordan Staal's contract is tough for how little offense he produces, shutdown forwards or defensemen don't provide 6 million AAV in value by being black hole's offensively. I'm also hearing other Canes fans say that they could use another 3rd pair defenseman

Why are people accusing KK of not playing well in certain games if he was in covid protocol? Either he played in the game and didn't play well, or he didn't play and didn't have the chance to turn in a bad performance. I'm so confused. If KK is playing as well as you say he is, then he should totally displace Trocheck and be getting more ice time, I don't get your logic either

I know that we have voiced our different opinions before @Knuckl3s but in terms of Horvat getting played at C, he doesn’t get past Aho or Trocheck, and with how the Canes are currently structured, we technically have 2 3rd lines. You have the defensive and excellent transition line of Nino Staal Fast, and what is set as a 4th line but is better described as a 3B line of Martinook KK Lorentz/Stepan that has been utilized more often in offensive points compared to the 3A line I just mentioned. If the Canes acquired Horvat, he would be in the same situation as KK, and would be utilized in the same way. Staal would be the 3C and Horvat would be the 4C, but it would be more of a 3A/3B kind of situation.

And as for your assessment of the difference between KK and Horvat, the difference is Horvat has either already or is about to peak, whereas KK still has room to grow. As it stands, Horvat is better than KK, I will agree with you there, but a couple years down the road, nobody can be sure. And while Horvat could push KK to the wing, he won’t because KK has proven that he is a natural center, and his game as a whole is better when he plays at C. He has a decent LW game, but he is just better suited for C.

We can agree to disagree now, but in the long run, I do think that KK could be better than Horvat. Also, Drury isn’t being traded. He makes the roster full time next year, and likely replaces Staal as the Canes future 3C whenever Staal either leaves or retires.