Yeah swing and a miss, try again next time buddy

Actually now that you point that out i think you're right
Case and point Wheeler in ARZ was taken 5th OA refused to sign and ARZ got a 5th pick 2nd round pick as compensation

If they dont make an offer they get nothing
You are right

Not the Prospect you didnt sir
By your logic im never wrong on trade im just off by a couple pieces or picks haha
Which is why i use my logic

If i say Lehkonen will get a 1st and he gets a 2nd and Barron then im wrong
Even though its value is greater i dont give myself a pat on the back for being closer then others

That said when i call Chiarot with a 1st and a Prospect then we get a 1st ,4th and a prospect i'd still call that wrong.
I was close but i wasnt right

Depends on the circumstances like whether the draft choice is going to college and how old he is.

This page on Capfriendly sums it up:

https://www.capfriendly.com/reserve-list-faq

I said VALUE, not exact trade. Heineman is worth a 2nd. As the rumors actually started to come into fruition I actually posted "1st + Heineman + Pitlick" about a week before the trade, want me to find that one too?

In this situation i doubt Mailloux doesnt re-sign
I also highly doubt they dont offer Mailloux a deal
He's done everything he can and more
Even if its just to trade him to a location that wont be as Prejudice against him
There's more value in trade him then not signing him and it sends the same message if thats their intent

Sure , whatever helps you sleep at night haha
I accept the difference between right and wrong
I see being wrong as an opportunity to Humble myself and Grow my Knowledge.

Your approach is to ignore Context and Go "See im right "
I mean if that's what you need to tell yourself ok
But i dont get most of the lotto numbers right then Celebrate almost winning

I am with you on a lot of this. Ending rape culture in mens hockey and in general is something that is in dire need. The way women are treated in this world is awful (see the US supreme courts ruling on Roe v Wade). As a Hawks fan, and when it comes to the accusations against Patrick Kane, I was all for the full force of the law and the NHL coming down on him. Having friends and family that have been victims of sexual assault and having been a victim myself, my initial reaction was to terminate his contract and ban him from the league, I was furious. But I tried to temper my reaction and reserve judgment until more facts were available. When you look at that case as a whole, I think they did a pretty good job of defending Kane without slandering his accuser. I followed it very closely as it all unfolded and once the facts were available, it was pretty clear it was a hoax. I don't want to go out of my way to defend him, but I see that argument against him a lot and I think people need to look into the facts more before speaking so absolutely about his character. Yes, he was a ****head when he was younger and did some dumb stuff, but when it comes to that, the facts point to him not being a rapist.

They get a 2nd rounder if they dont sign him.

I gotta agree right up until "every way " part

Anderson's a net front battler who screens goals and lives for battling along the boards using all his size and speed

Puljujarvi is more an Lehkonen then an Anderson
He hits often or even more but its the same physically dominant player as Power Forwards like Anderson or Armia

JP is a great player and more reliable i think as a playmaker
Andersons game is all about Shots , Tip in's and Battling for rebounds infront of the net and in the corner.

That said NYI have enough net front battler's to justify a Puljujarvi
That said IF Lou like Barzal-Anderson based on Chemisty reasons then this is all a moot point as Lou always goes with Gut calls of Number Crunching then adjusts accordingly based on the teams new needs.(Did it in NJD ,TML and NYI for better or worse)

barzal-anderson was fine at worlds but it wasn’t this crazy, can’t miss, marchand-crosby-bergeron chemistry, and with parise lee and nelson there’s really no need for more net-front guys. getting a guy like pulju makes way more sense when looking at the current roster, that’s why i said he’s a better ACQUISITION for this team than anderson in every way. anderson fills a role we already have guys to fill. if lou was worried about chemistry with barzal, he never should have exposed eberle in expansion.

To play devils advocate
How could you say though?
No trial was ever seriously pursued as USA justice system to the rest of the world looks uncivilized is what most Americans dont see.
The fact that E.Kane hired him right after to do the same thing choosing to attack the victim rather then prove his innocence

As bad as Canada is as our conviction rate really isnt much better we atleast hear the victims out(even if in vain seemingly sometimes)
Its the standards in which a jury is asked to assign guilt that is our issue up here as the onus is on the victim to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt it happened which is nearly impossible in most case's of sexual abuse unless they tape it which is also illegal without their abuser's consent.

My point is Kane in Sweden woulda been convicted 8/10 based on their Conviction rates vs ours
Their standards are to rely more on the Judge's discretion in cases like this
The judge weighs your history and other accusations more seriously then a jury does as getting 12 people to agree on Lunch is impossible let alone Guilt


The victims here are Targets
The victims there are treated like humans and media that attacks them is in violation of the law
Its why Tabloids wasnt set up there bashing the Rape Victim as that type of Sensationalism isnt welcome

We're fairly young countries that still have a lot to learn
Sweden has survived as long as it has by evolving its laws in really progressive ways

Yes I know that, but why wouldn't they just keep the talented young player instead of basically giving up a first for a second? Yeah he had a little contraversy but I think that will be passed.

Agree but apparently Lou doesnt agree
According to multiple sources he's got that hard on for Anderson as he had for Andersen funny enough
He gave up a 1st and a 2nd for him
Many thought that was overpaying given the situation ANA was in is similar to NYR now with Georgiev and Shesterkin
They didnt have the leverage and Lou overpaid anyways

Lou overpays and gets less then he should in deals
That said he does build really tough playoff teams so it makes up for it

Not only a 2nd rounder but the last 2nd rounder as he was the last pick in the 1st round
Not worth it at all

We'd get more in a sign and trade then that even if its just a 2nd in 2-3 years from now it would have more value

You could ask the same question about Filip Johansson.

the only source on this josh anderson thing that i really consider somewhat reliable is NRD, and lou’s notorious for not leaking much of anything and if things get leaked then not doing them, so who knows. that said, lou’s always valued goaltenders really highly and has been willing to overpay to lock that position in. he for sure overpaid for palmieri and pageau, but they also happened at the deadline and those players filled obvious holes which anderson just doesn’t do. he always goes after the most obvious target, which to me is clearly fiala. i wonder if this anderson noise is him trying to strong-arm GMBG.

That is absolutely true. We don't and can't know for sure. Which is why we can't speak in absolutes in either direction. As I said, the available facts point to him not being a rapist, and I have resolved to give him that benefit of the doubt based on those available facts. That isn't to say I don't still have second guess that conclusion or that I am not open to being wrong.

This isn't about "being humble" or "growing my knowledge." I said 1 sentence in a thread that's not even yours and you wrote me a book of nonsense about how this draft is actually bad and stuff I frankly don't care about because it's probably wrong. So I responded with a single sentence that should have ended the conversation entirely but then you started trying to belittle my knowledge by saying "I got all these trade values wrong." Logically I am going to defend that.

I'm ending this here. I completely disagree with your first response to me because the concept of 13th OA and 26th OA being the same caliber player is just flawed. To me this says you haven't done enough homework on the draft. However, that is not to say that someone from 26th OA can't develop into someone drafted ahead of them at 13th OA. Pastrnak (25th) over Perlini (12th) comes to mind.

This is about Accountability and Context nothing more
Anyone trying to sell something else is looking to Manipulate the subject
No Book worth of notes needed to try to Educate you to how the other side lives lol

I can set that aside enough not to judge people who still support rapists
But as a Victim of abuse who's been to court and knows what its like to be undermined by a Predator i gotta say i cant give Patrick that kinda pass.Even if lets say hypothetically its buyers remoarse how he handled himself set the tone and sent a message to victims everywhere

Instead of trying to make a positive impact and change like Mailloux's doing with his efforts to use his story to raise awareness.
Patrick tried taking the moral highground after choosing to get dirty
If he was innocent it should have come out in trial not by sicking thousands of angry fans to harass them
Dont matter how you spin it he knew what was going on and chose to say nothing to stop it

You can argue he didnt have to which is true.But to me there's a difference between defending your innocence and slandering others playing the "who looks worse " game

Being on the other side of it makes all the difference as before i went through it i had a lot of assumptions about right and wrong with regards to how it apply's to the legal system . What i learned is Jury's care less about what you go through and are putting themselves in not only your position but out of fear largely in the Accused's position. Their logic is better a 100 rapist walk free then 1 possibly innocent man be convicted. I get the logic to it but the trial isnt about them and never was making this type of bias a serious obstacle to over come and why in Sweden Judge's make rulings on cases like these. That said their Judge's arent bought and paid for by a Party like its a Nascar Sponsor either so they can do it that way i suppose lol

Its a really confusing and overly stressful process
To me the fact that a Judge can weigh past history but a Lawyer cant submit it to the Jury unless there's a conviction is one of the many reasons why our system doesnt function properly in this regard.

I am absolutely not someone who would, as you said, "still support a rapist" knowing what they have done. So, I just spent the last day, after our conversation, second guessing my conclusions, refreshing my memory and combing through all the available facts surrounding the accusations agains Patrick Kane, even going so far as to look into the backgrounds of the lawyers and district attorney involved and the timeline of events that happened,

And, after careful consideration, here are a few things I determined from those available FACTs:
1: this campaign of slander against the accuser, that you keep bringing up, doesn't even exist. It is almost impossible that it could considering the accuser was never revealed publicly. Even so, fans cannot be controlled, especially the types that go so far as to threaten other people on behalf of someone they don't even know.
2: All indications are that the girl was scamming, most likely for money, and got caught.
3: The Erie County District Attorney who made that determination has a career mired in fair and just rulings on important cases without bias or any trace of corruption. He described the accusers case as a "so called case" and "rife with reasonable doubt". Also, this all happened right before an election year. As a democrat in a blue state ruling against an alleged victim of rape in such a high profile case would be career suicide if there wasn't real tangible and reasonable doubt. And his track record would seem to indicate that he only has the best interests of his constituents in mind and doesn't bend to the will of the wealthy and powerful.
4: The girls lawyer was a scammer personal injury lawyer.
5: Seems pretty reasonable that Kane was silent because of the position he was put in and/or by the instruction of his lawyer and the organizations that he represents. But all that aside, silence is not a crime and is not inherently indicative of guilt.

I don't blame you for having bias or being suspicious, especially considering what you told me you have gone through. But the argument against 'victim shaming' doesn't mean that the accuser is always right. For true justice, due diligence is always warranted. I definitely don't think that Kane or anyone in the Blackhawks organization or the NHL as a whole, other than a VERY select few players coaches and executives, has been vocal enough about the subject of rape and other social justice issues, for my liking. My Blackhawks and Hockey fandom is hanging by a thread because of that. However, a lack of being vocal about something, depending on the subject can certainly be a PR nightmare, but it is not a crime.

Also, while what Mailloux did is not nearly as egregious as rape, IT IS proven and tangible. It seems to me, and this is just my opinion, Mailloux is just doing the bare minimum required to keep his hopes of a career in hockey alive. Yet, you paint him as a picture of remorse and change. Which seems like another opinion in which you have possibly shown bias, maybe because of being a Montreal fan. Not only that but you are the one that used P. Kane and E. Kane as comparable examples in the first place, playing a game of "who looks worse" of your own. Which is a tactic you essentially just argued as being petty and baseless.

All I'm saying is that, I do agree with you generally on a lot of what you are saying, but I think ignoring facts in favor of an emotional response or gut suspicion can be a dangerous game. We all have to make our own determinations on things, especially when the answers might not be so clear. I am absolutely open to the possibility that Kane might be guilty and there was some sort of corruption behind the scenes. But to me, in the case of the accusations against P. Kane, given the available information and what logically makes sense considering the timeline of events, indications are that he was not guilty of any wrong doing.