I don't think VAN wants a center but would need a fan of theirs to comment.
Make the first top-ten protected.
If both of the above are approved, I'm in.

Also, only give up the first if Miller extends.
But unfortunately, that means next summer you'd likely have to move out Brock Nelson, to make $6M in cap space. However, Raty should be ready by then...

Hahaha. Now where is the real proposal for Miller?

Exactly what do you think you're going to get for Miller at the trade deadline? A first round pick in the 20's...
Flip Pageau if you need to. He's worth at least a 2nd and a 3rd if not more.

Canucks don’t need a 29 year old 30-40 point center that costs 5 million dollars. No thank you. Bjorkstrand only got a third and a fourth and Pageau is significantly worse. Barely any value in him. Holmstrom doesn’t blow me away either, and the canucks already have a plethora of NHL wingers, and prospect wingers. The first is not enough to get it done

Centers have more value, and Pageau has many other qualities outside of his 30-40 points. Guy does everything. Useful on PP and PK. Puts up clutch points in the playoffs. I'm not a fan of getting rid of him but Lou apparently just signed a center in Kadri.

To your first point, most things you just said about Pageau, Bjorkstrand can do better. Give me some good reasons why the Canucks would want a 29 year old 5 million dollar center that does not produce many points.

So flip him. If he returns just a third round pick, as you say, then you're getting a 1st, 3rd, and Holmstrom for Miller. You're not going to do any better at the trade deadline. And if all you NHL fans think the isles are old and done, then you may as well take their 1st rounder which will be higher up in the draft... (but hopefully it's top-ten protected)

Also - better hope that Miller performs close to his 99 point season (and stays healthy) if you're going to hold on to him until the trade deadline... Can you count on both of those things to be the case? Decline in production and that first becomes a second. I feel like the Isles are 1 of a very very few teams who can even take on Miller's contract right now from the start of the season...

Do you want me to give you a list of significantly worse players that received a first round pick and more at the deadline as rentals? Ok fine

Ben Chiarot: overrated second/third pair d man that has terrible analytics
Return: first round pick, fourth round pick, prospect

David Savard: another second/third pair d man
Return: first round pick, third round pick

Nick Foligno: bottom six veteran with limited to no offensive production
Return: first round pick, fourth round pick

Claude Giroux: older vet, still top 6 material but not nearly as good as Miller
Return: first round pick, solid prospect +

Andrew Copp: solid middle six center, not nearly as good as Miller
Return: prospect, two second round picks, one of which ended up becoming a first round pick

Think you’ve had enough? Not a single one of those players are nearly as good as Miller, yet they all fetched around the same value you have proposed. Do you see how silly it is to say that’s fair value now? Now you say if he slightly declined, he can’t even fetch a first round pick? Give your head a shake

2023 draft has higher talent than 2022.
Again, you'd be getting a draft pick in the 20's if waiting until the deadline, but you can take that chance in something higher with isles now if you feel they're not a playoff team.
You're discounting the trade value of Pageau.

You'll *probably still get the first at the deadline if production dips noticeably, but what else are you expecting? Why not take the Isles first now and get it over with?
I can assure you that VAN fans are going to be extremely upset with the return for Miller, when it happens...
He's not extending in VAN, and everyone knows that. It takes away leverage. Very few teams can afford him right now cap-wise. And I'd hate to see VAN fighting closely for a playoff spot and then be put in a position to trade away a very good player right in the thick of it.

Just curious, what are VAN's biggest holes right now in your opinion? We know you want a RHD. Dobson isn't for sale. What else?

If you can’t even be bothered to read the above argument, then it’s clearly not worth my time arguing with you.

K. Let's revisit this once he's dealt.

Bo Hovat has one year remaining until UFA. The Canucks are probably not going to resign him(he is going to price himself out of Vancouver budget). Your team is already thin at center so Pageau could move up to 2nd line center until you can draft a 2nd line center, Now you have a cost controlled center and definite first round pick in the 20's where all the teams you are trading at the TDL will be at.

I think you’re talking about JT Miller. Bo Horvat isn’t going anywhere. Management is going to do whatever it takes to keep him, Miller on the other hand is tradeable. Our team is not really thin at center. If we trade Miller, we still have Pettersson and Horvat. All we would need is a 3C which isn’t that big of a deal. Pageau being payed 5 million as a 3C is just poor cap management when he is already 29 and not getting any better. I wouldn’t call that cost controlled. We already have a lot of forwards in our system. Pageau as our 2C is a nightmare and only happens if we want to rank for Bedard.

Not even going to bother to back up your statements? Shocker…

If Horvat scores another 30 goals this year than you are looking at player who can command 8-8.5 million dollars on the open market. The team probably wants to resign Petterson to a 9-9.5 million dollar over 8 years . The fact that the team is not a playoff team and is not contending now, I would say Horvat is not going to be resign. It is better to find a replacement now temporarily now then wait and get screwed in two years.

Horvat is not going to cost 8-8.5 million dollars. He costs 7.5 at most. No need to worry about Pettersson signing because we also get rid of Myers which frees up 6 mil in cap space. You clearly know nothing if you think so strongly that Horvat walks in free agency. You also seriously think Pageau is the answer? I’d rather player one of our wingers at center than have a 30 year old bottoms so player who puts up 30-40 points

Just because you say he going to get 7.5 and wish doesn't mean that's going to happen. Mat Duchene, Tomas Hertl, and Seam Couturier all players that were i the same age bracket, same position and put up similar numbers who made close to 8 million or above in the recent Free Agency years. I would suggest do your research before you talk sh**t good bye.

While I don't really want to get into a debate with you. Everyone has got their own opinion on value of team's players which is fine. But what I would say is this, if you wait until the deadline, as my fellow isles fan mention that pick will be in the bottom portion of the draft (high 20's). Unless there is a significant injury to a top player (who has a nice cap hit) to a playoff team. What team will have an cap space??
Currently - and most of these teams below have a good player on IR already. So when they come back it's even worst.
TB - 7M over the cap
Was - 6M over
Florida -- 3.3M over
Edm - 2.9M over
Columbus - 1.8M over
Tor - 1.5M over
Pitts - 1.5M over
Vegas 1.4M over

Only playoff teams that might have the room - But they will still have to give you a cap dump are
Car - 1.8M
Wild - 4.3M

Teams like Det, Chicago, Ducks, Sabres and Arizona have the room but they won't trade the assets you want for Miller who is at that point a pure rental.

Like I said, I'm not into having any arguments . As an Isles fan, I don't want Miller at all, I just don't think he fits. We have cap issues ourselves and not trading a boat load of picks and young assets for him. And if we are lucky then sign him to a crazy contract - heard he's looking for 8M+ for 7 years. To hell with that.

He's good player, but at this time, with his age and contract status. Isles would be a very bad move for both.

I like Horvat a lot but he simply isn’t good enough to earn first line money. He is not worth 8 mil, he never has. He is a solid 2C that probably costs somewhere in the 7 mil range. He is not quite as good as some of the comparators you mentioned when those guys signed the contracts. He is also more likely to sign a little less than market value to stay in Vancouver. Maybe you should think with your head before you keep whining. Bye

So if you think he is worth 7 million give me some contract comparables

Kevin Hayes 7.14x7 years
Brayden Schenn 6.5x8 years
Brock Nelson 6x6 years
Ryan O’Reilly 7.5x7 years

All players signed around the ages 25-28
All players produced around 50-60 points
All play the same position

Is that enough?

Brock Nelson and Ryan O'Reilly never even cracked 30 goals before their signings. Kevin Hayes never cracked 50 points before his signing, overpayment by the Flyers You also have to factor in inflation in the market. Try again. If Horvat scores another 30 goals like I said it is a problem

Canucks laugh and hang up