The only reason hes not signing him isnt because of cap space its because hes set firm on his contract offer with the kid but Sandin somehow feels hes worth around 2.6mill

And here's where the fun begins, Sandin's agent Lewis Gross tried this before with another client of his William Nylander and we all know what happened. Bunch of back and fourth and dragged out till December where Nylander finally gave in at the last second and signed a steal of a deal

Dubas has to make it clear to Gross he isnt giving in to Sandin's demands (like he did with Nylander) and is prepared to go for the long run as in the end the only person getting affected by this is Sandin. And while Gross has tried making the media a weapon again Dubas isnt biting the bullet and will carry out business behind closed doors likes hes done more recently

You've still got it wrong. Sandin has no spot on the roster. He will continue to ask for more than they can pay him till he is either traded or a spot is opened for him on the roster.

This isn't about money, other than asking for more than keafs can afford for a 7th Dman.

Hes got a spot 3rd pair on his offside if he doesnt want to take it and continues to ask for more he can sit out. As him sitting out doesnt affect the team at all and we can keep Holl until the kid takes the deal Liligren got and move on. As 2.6mill is way to much for Sandin

Your guess is wrong. My guess is Sandin plays in the shl this season. Takes a year like puljujarvi. Possibly demands a trade.

You can go 10% over the cap in the off season. If it was abour cap space, he's signed

And it was already made publuc that he will not sign to play bottom pair on his offside. Which there isn't even a spot for him at the moment.

Dubas had a decision to make. Keep the broken old man and lose the younger better player or do the right thing. He made his choice.

The leafs will be the ones to suffer. Sandin will make his money overseas. He will get better development than he would with the leafs. Leafs will struggle to replace Muzzin when he gets hurt and will have to shop for more expensive less talented players than Sandin to fill out aging left side with zero interesting lhd prospects.

The thing is Dubas has all the control

Sandin hasnt showed he is ready for full time top 4 and Muzzin showed that when he gets some rest and has a proper partner he is far and beyond a more capable Dman in both zones

Sandin should play whatever role is given as hes in no position to be demanding anything. Want play time here play the side thats open if not sit out. Dermott did it and it worked out well so Sandin should do the same. Times are changing. Dman are learning to play their offsides now and if he doesnt want to, to bad its a new league. Sandin's development wont get better in the SHL or Liiga as thats a different ball game. Didnt do anything for JP who once again is on Edmonton's potential out list. Got a feeling Sandin will do the exact same thing as Nylander give in at the last second and sign at 1.4mill x 2 years and play a similar role as Dermott.

And if Muzzin gets hurt replacement is already in the system (Giordano) so all were gonna need is for one of Mete or Benn to play 3rd pair for a while and were set. So in the end Sandin sitting out will have 0 affect on the team

Respectfully, he isnt signing that. if its a one year deal then maybe, but not for 3.

Dermott worked out well??? His career is ruined.

He did outplay Muzzin and Gio last year. But we both know that isn't enough. He is well within his rights to not play for a team that is trying to ruin his career. This debocle created by dubas will end in a trade. Might even end up as bad as the Rask trade.

Dubas has zero need to trade him and Sandin has no leverage to get it done. Its like what we saw with Holland and JP. Whats gonna happen is the same as Nylander a few years ago

Sandin gives in signs 1.4mill x 2 years, Holl gets dumped and we all move on

Or demands a trade. Not sure why we would Holl since Sandin can't play the right to save his life. In either scenario leafs lose.

The right thing to do was move Muzzin sign Sandin and Lilly to matching deals, sign a suitable starter and upgrade 2lw. Instead dubas completely **** the bed.

Trading Muzzin is not a good idea. He is one of the teams best defenders and they will really miss him.

As I keep saying moving Muzzin is to risky. Sandin has not showed he is ready for a full time top 4 role. In some games yes he looked good. But whenever Muzzin was out he and Liligren got exposed and burned multiple sports guys have said it. Now yes Gio solved the issue a bit but not enough to where moving on from Muzzin would be smart

Relating to this, Sandin has also shown to be injury prone suffering 3 LBI in 2 seasons. Not great sure Muzzin also has had injuries but if we move him and Sandin gets hurt then what. Thats 2 good LD missing when we could have kept both so one could fill in for the other.

But in general Dubas has 0 need to trade Sandin. Players can demand trades all they want but teams dont got to oblige. Edmonton could have traded JP didnt. Let him go to Europe and then he chose to come back. Debrusk asked for a trade then decided nah along with Tarasenko

So in the end Leafs are fine with or without Sandin. When Muzzin retires and if Sandin is traded Leafs will go sign someone to replace him or have drafted someone for that in 2023. But I got a feeling Sandin will give in and sign a deal like what Liligren got and play RD for 2022-2023. Then in 2023-2024 when Muzzin most likely retires and goes on LTIR Sandin will get his chance and he will need to firmly grasp it otherwise Leafs will go get a more experienced person to.

You're a bit lost here. He looked great when Muzzin was out. Paired with Holl he was actually far better than Muzzin. It's when Muzzin was back and Sandin was paired with him in the right that he looked like trash.

But leafs best record was when Muzzin was out. Is it risky? It could be but not in my opinion. Sandin has already shown he is better than Muzzin. If there is an issue you have Gio there. Who again, is better than Muzzin.

The risky part is losing Sandin and Muzzin for the season.

Thats why I say pair Sandin not with Muzzin but with Giordano. Giordano can take on more of the defensive responsibility and allow Sandin to focus on finding his RD game. Liligren can then play with one of Muzzin or Rielly

Wouldnt surprise me if for 2022-2023 pairings are

Rielly-Liligren
Muzzin-Brodie
Giordano-Sandin

As having depth on D is important and I got a feeling Muzzin gonna be the guy we saw 2 years ago who just played a solid game and kept the defense stable.

The Leafs haven't signed Sandin....that's true. But neither has the 31 other NHL teams who could sign him too, well at least offer sheet him.

He doesn't have an rd game. Why not put Muzzin on the right side with Gio?

It's just a fountain of bad ideas. There was only one good idea this offseason. It would have upgraded our defence and saved us 5m in cap. But that ship sailed. The mess that is left behind can't be fixed. Leafs will regress this season.

I like dubas but he dropped the ball this year. Sorry if you don't see that yet.

I don't think the Leafs will move Muzzin, he likely finishes his contract with the Leafs and then after that who knows.

In general I think we can all agree there wont be an OS as lets be real why wouldnt a team OS him 4.2mill and only pay a 2nd vs. giving Gudbranson or Chiarot those god awful long term deals.

The answer its probs because he either doesnt want to sign one or no team thinks hes worth it

As if an OS was to happen it would have happened weeks ago as Luke Fox mentioned

I think he plays this season then does the battle scared vets retirement " i.e. LTIR for 2023-2024) and then a team like Arizona takes the deal just to reach the cap or something

Yea I think Muzzin stays a Leaf. And if the summer of 2024, Muzzin, Matthews, Nylander and Murray (maybe more) are UFAs....there is 30m

I could see him continuing to play depending on his health and how bad he wants a cup.

Dubas didnt really do anything. Sandin got greedy and Dubas through his time as GM realises this and is going your in no position to be demanding anything. An OS was Sandin's only leverage and thats gone now as lets be real an OS would have happened weeks ago

Dubas moving Muzzin and having the risk of Sandin getting hurt again and missing time isnt worth it.

Rielly-Brodie
Gio-Liligren
Sandin-Holl is not an upgrade over what I mentioned earlier.

Keeping both just makes to much sense rn. Either someone plays their offside of he sits out. He can demand a trade but with 0 leverage Leafs org can say no.

As in the end Leafs rn dont need Sandin and can start the season fine without him.

I feel after this year his body might give in, or all the offseason rest will rejuvenate him and he plays like he did 2 seasons ago. But either way wouldnt be surprised if he retires the LTIR way in 2023 as often we see battered and bruised Dman take this course of action. Also hes got a cup with the Kings.

Kid who wants to play hockey is "greedy". No dubas is just getting pushed around bully Muzzin. If dubas could have made a suitable spot for Sandin to play he would be under contract on a deal similar to Lilly right now.

And yes those defensive pairs are indeed an upgrade. Muzzin was by far our worst defender. I think even rubins metrics were better. He can barely stand up in skates and he's one concussion away from robidas island. But if that's what you want instead of a young stud like Sandin don't complain later when leafs are struggling to secure a playoff spot.