I hope they want Kerfoot instead. lol

Not that one!!

They don’t!

They could fit Tatar too

By forward they're referring to a top-six type forward.

A Pacioretty type of player.

Or a young player that another team might be looking to move that has some potential upside to their game that could mesh well with our current roster and fit our younger core players age range.

Jesse Puljujärvi or Kappo Kakko come to immediate mind.

They most certainly are NOT looking for a Johnsson, Tatar, or heaven forbid a Kerfoot. Kerfoot and Tatar are too damn old and Johnsson's a bust.

Can't say I've heard someone call a 27 year old former 7th round pick coming of a 0.48ppg season a "bust" before.

Perfectly reasonable to not want Johnsson, but "bust" is a weird word to describe a middle-6 forward drafted in the 7th round...

In those terms, no he wouldn't be one.

Unfortunately for him.

But when all we heard 5-6 years ago was how he was supposed to be this amazing potential top-six talent and he just needed his chance to prove it... he's considered a bust.

Read my above post, as it explains what I meant.

But calling a bottom-9 player of Johnsson's caliber a middle-six forward seems a stretch.

Damn. Guy failed to meet Leaf fans/media's absurd exceptions. What a failure.

Leafs fans overhyping their prospects isn't new, or any fanbase really, and if that was just the case I'd agree with you. But it wasn't just Leafs fans though.

It was the national talking heads and pundits saying the same things about him too. This was across the entire league that he was getting hyped up.

He had a very similar tract as say Kaprizov or the Wild's other own 2019 3rd round pick Adam Beckman, where he wasn't on anybodies radar until after he was already drafted and exploded afterwards. Between 2015 and 2018 he garnered national hype as a potential top-six player because of it.

He's carved out a ok career since he didn't hit his expectations, good for him. But it doesn't change the fact he was once considered a potential top-six talent.

By that token he's a *bust*. Or at least, that's what I keep getting told.

Maybe using the term *bust* may have been too strong a word. But I see people using the term when talking about a 21 year old Kakko, as if he couldn't still hit his projected ceiling. If all he becomes is a serviceable middle-six player then he is still NOT a bust as he's playing in the NHL in a meaningful way.

Right?

Which is it?

He's either a bust because he didn't hit his projected ceiling or he's not a bust because he plays in the NHL. If Johnsson isn't a bust by virtue of being a 7th rounder, and not because he actually plays in the league at all. Then what does that say for Kakko?

I am not saying this to be hypocritical, but rather to get some semblance of what you others define the term *bust* to mean. Because it's evident, that it means different things to different people.

Bust or not bust...

Tyson Jost?
Jordan Greenway?

So, slow AND dumb.

He vastly exceeded his projected ceiling... He was a 7th rounder...

As somebody from the Toronto area, you sound exactly like the people you're condemning, Leaf fans.

To Leaf fans, you're either an elite talent, a potential elite talent, or you're nothing. So they over hype anybody they have interest in because being a useful middle-6 forward is never good enough for a player in blue and white.

Again, it depends on your definition of bust.

Jost was considered a top-six talent and has certainly failed to hit that mark. One would consider that a bust, no? But then again, he is an NHL regular and legitimately belongs in the league. Is he really a bust then?

Jordan Greenway has only ever been projected to be a middle-six powerforward since he was drafted. Which is exactly what he is, and is coming off of his best year of his career. Not in points, but in how he played and set the tone with his forechecking, physicality, and defensive contribution by utilizing his size-strength package the way Wild fans have been dreaming for years.

He was also 1/3 of the best shutdown line in hockey last year. In which, they were the only line across the entire league to allow fewer than 10 goals against during the regular season. Powerforwards typically develop until their 26 years old, and Greenway is just 25. So he's still getting better, and developing at this point.

But even then, It's pretty clear that Greenway is the farthest thing from a bust. As he's already hit his projected ceiling and was never expected to be a top-six player to begin with. So the insinuation that he is a bust seems far-fetched.

Seems like you're being hypocritical now

A bust "player who does not perform up to expectations". EVERY TEAMS FANS has inflated expectations for their prospects/players. Basing your opinion off of their opinions, opposed to league wide opinion is pretty dumb.

Johnsson was drafted as a 7th rounder and is a middle six winger producing a career 0.46 PPG. That's a far from a player who doesn't perform to his expectations

Greenway was drafted in the 2nd round and is a middle six winger producing a career 0.41 PPG. Not a bust by any means but is "more of a bust" than Johnsson

Jost was drafted as the 10th pick and is a bottom six forward producing a career 0.32 PPG. He did not meet the expectations of a top 10 pick therefore he is a bust

Same with Kakko and Puljujarvi. Both high draft picks that did not meet expectations (still time for them though)

Sure, you can say JPP and Kakko are better trade targets than Johnsson but at least use proper reasoning to explain it

Come again?

How am I sounding anything like the supposed Leafs fans I'm condemning? I am more than perfectly fine and happy if a player turns into an NHL'er and doesn't reach their expectations. F**k anyone who says otherwise.

I don't give a f**k what round a player is drafted in, as long as they make the NHL. And I most certainly don't care if that player overachieves/talents go unnoticed and proves everybody the f**k wrong either.

AGAIN it depends on one's definition of the term *bust*.

THAT IS ALL I'M SAYING.

A player can be a *bust* in terms of expectations and still be a solid player, and I will happily have that player on my team. That player is certainly NOT nothing. And I never once stated that they were, so please don't put words into my mouth I don't think or mean.

You may have not stated it implicitly, but that was your insinuation by saying I'm sounding like the Leafs fans your familiar with.

For Christ's sake, I literally compared Johnsson to KIRILL KAPRIZOV AND ADAM BECKMAN.

Kaprizov was on NO ONE'S radar in 2015 and exploded in 2016 and became a household name by 2017.

Just like Johnson was in 2015 by the NATIONAL MEDIA (Both in the US and Canada)!

Adam Beckman was drafted in the 3rd round of 2019 and was the scoring leader in the WHL in 2020.

What I'm alluding to here, is that the fact Johnsson was drafted in the 7th round means nothing. Because from 2015-2018 he would of been considered a 1st round pick in pretty much every re-draft that was going on at the time by every prospect analyst or pro scout in the league because of how high his expectations were, again NOT JUST BY LEAFS FANS.

If Beckman has his winning WHL season just one year before, he's would've been a 1st round pick. Instead, he explodes during his D+1 year. Same for Kaprizov and any of his D+ years after 2015, he'd of been considered a 1st round talent.

So in essence, Johnsson's expectations and projections weren't that of a 7th rounder when he hit the league but of that of somebody with 1st round talent. THAT IS A MAJOR DIFFERENCE.

I'm not basing my expectations/opinions off any one single fanbase's expectations, as I'm not that stupid.

I base my expectations and experience on those who do this for a goddamn living. Prospect Analysts, Professional Scouts, and Prospect sites like EliteProspects or DobberProspects.

I have literally stated, multiple times now, that I am basing my opinions from NATIONAL SOURCES, and not any one fanbase. 🙄

And I'm not just referring to their listings at drafts, but their post-draft stuff that follow these prospects 2-3 years after they were drafted.

Jordan Greenway's projections have literally ALWAYS been that of a middle-six powerforward. He HIT his projected ceiling when Johnsson did NOT.

FROM 2015-2018 JOHNSSON WAS CONSIDERED A 1ST ROUND TALENT BY [ NATIONAL SOURCES ] WITH TOP-SIX PROJECTIONS.

He wasn't considered a 7th round type pick by the time he hit the NHL. That's an important distinction.

Covering a lot of ground here. An elite NHL winger, an okay middle-six winger, and a tweener.

“Bust” is usually a term that compares players negatively towards their pre-draft expectations.

As I have stated multiple times.

It depends on what definition of Bust is being used and by whom and for what reason.

A *bust* can simply be used to describe someone who can't make the NHL.

Or

It could mean someone who had been considered a potential top-six player and doesn't reach their expectations for that ceiling. But is still a solid NHL'er.

Or

Yes, someone who doesn't meet their pre-draft expectations.

That is my point, and why I asked for what everyone's thoughts on which version/meaning of *bust* do they mean.

Everyone's is different. As there are too many different variations of meaning so it's hard to grasp where everyone is coming from.

I don't recall seeing Johnsson so highly rated.
His promise likely peaked after his AHL playoff run before his rookie season, when we won playoff MVP.
Even then he was a kinda-maybe-sorta type prospect.

I remember him being touted pretty heavily back during those years, but I guess it's entirely possible I'm misremembering and could be wrong. 🤷‍♂️