The case for trading back

Forums/Armchair-GM

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Created by: jonh514

Team: 2023-24 Montreal Canadiens

Initial Creation Date: May 12, 2023

Published: May 12, 2023

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

I am not sure what the Habs are gonna do at 5OA and honestly I really trust this management team. I will also add that Gorton, as far as I know, has never traded back - but I think this year it might make sense, if (and only if) they are presented with a choice between Michkov & Benson on the draft floor.

Why not Michkov?

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, I prefer to see myself as a realist. It would not be the first time the Russian government enslaved an athlete and it won't be the last. Not worth the risk.

Why not Benson?

He's a great player by all accounts. There is no questioning his heart or commitment, and certainly not his talent. His size really concerns me, especially if the team intends to keep Caufield long term. We need to get bigger not smaller.

What could we get?

It's entirely reasonable to think we could target deals with teams like Detroit or St-Louis and pull in a top 10 pick (9 or 10) and another one or two picks (16-20) or (21-28 & a 2nd)

The top 10 pick will still being in an assuredly good player, probably more of a Dvorsky or Reinbacher. Not a game breaker, but a serious contributor to this team in the medium and long term.

There is also a ton of great players in the 16-60 range of this draft. Forwards, Defensemen, Goalies. We could select 4-5 times in the top 60, and that is a great way to find players who outperform their draft pedigree.

Final thought

While we don't have game-breaking talent at Center, this team for the first time in a long time does not "need" a Center. Between Zuke, Dach, Beck, and possibly PLD, we will have a good to great center line for many years. Our needs on he other hand are at wing, at RHD, and at Goalie. There are plenty of those guys who will be effective in the NHL at 9-60.

Trades

MTL

2023 1st round pick (DET)
2023 1st round pick (NYI)

DET

2023 1st round pick (MTL)
2023 3rd round pick (MTL)

MTL

2023 1st round pick (DAL)
2023 1st round pick (STL)
2023 1st round pick (TOR)

STL

5 OA
69 OA

Buyouts

Karl Alzner: $833,333

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2023
2024
2025

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

EMBED

TEXT-EMBED

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
20	$83,500,000	$59,959,166	$1,170,000	$4,752,500	$23,540,834

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Hoffman, Mike $4,500,000$4,500,000 LW UFA - 1	Suzuki, Nick $7,875,000$7,875,000 C UFA - 7	Gallagher, Brendan $6,500,000$6,500,000 RW, LW M-NTC, NMC UFA - 4
Pitlick, Rem $1,100,000$1,100,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Dvorak, Christian $4,450,000$4,450,000 C M-NTC UFA - 2	Anderson, Josh $5,500,000$5,500,000 RW, LW M-NTC UFA - 4
Farrell, Sean $897,500$897,500 ($557,500$558K) RW, LW RFA - 2	Dach, Kirby $3,362,500$3,362,500 C, RW RFA - 3	Armia, Joel $3,400,000$3,400,000 RW, LW UFA - 2
	Evans, Jake $1,700,000$1,700,000 C UFA - 2

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Matheson, Michael $4,875,000$4,875,000 LD M-NTC UFA - 3	Savard, David $3,500,000$3,500,000 RD UFA - 2	Allen, Jake $1,925,000$1,925,000 G M-NTC UFA - 2
Edmundson, Joel $875,000$875,000 LD/RD M-NTC UFA - 1	Barron, Justin $925,000$925,000 ($275,000$275K) RD RFA - 1	Montembeault, Samuel $1,000,000$1,000,000 G UFA - 1
Guhle, Kaiden $863,333$863,333 ($420,000$420K) LD/RD RFA - 2	Kovacevic, Johnathan $766,667$766,667 RD UFA - 2
Harris, Jordan $1,400,000$1,400,000 LD/RD RFA - 2	Wideman, Chris $762,500$762,500 RD UFA - 1

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
	Slafkovsky, Juraj $950,000$950,000 ($3,500,000$4M) RW, LW RFA - 2	Price, Carey $10,500,000$10,500,000 G NMC UFA - 3
	Xhekaj, Arber $828,333$828,333 LD/RD RFA - 1

May 12, 2023 at 8:19 a.m.

dtd_tank

Joined: Jun. 2016

Posts: 2,080

Likes: 865

For Detroit, I think it entirely depends on if Carlsson or WIll Smith are on the board at 5. If not, we pass.

jonh514 liked this.

May 12, 2023 at 8:20 a.m.

Lancebmx

Joined: Oct. 2020

Posts: 10,704

Likes: 8,292

Quoting: dtd_tank

For Detroit, I think it entirely depends on if Carlsson or WIll Smith are on the board at 5. If not, we pass.

Montreal would take either of those players.

May 12, 2023 at 8:21 a.m.

jonh514

Thread Starter

HuGo is a Boss GM

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Quoting: dtd_tank

For Detroit, I think it entirely depends on if Carlsson or WIll Smith are on the board at 5. If not, we pass.

Your opinion has been heard sir. But it is not the opinion shared by lots of Detroit fans on this site I believe.

dtd_tank liked this.

May 12, 2023 at 8:21 a.m.

Lancebmx

Joined: Oct. 2020

Posts: 10,704

Likes: 8,292

Make the third your second and I think it's worth it for Detroit, otherwise no thanks.
I'm sure the Blues fans would feel the same way.
I know some Detroit fans will disagree with this.

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May 12, 2023 at 8:23 a.m.

MorHitzSeider

Banned

Joined: Feb. 2023

Posts: 1,865

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If I can get Michkov I'm in.

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May 12, 2023 at 8:26 a.m.

MONSTER1974

Joined: Apr. 2017

Posts: 852

Likes: 184

If we end up up with 6 first round picks, that would be silly!! 😆

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May 12, 2023 at 8:28 a.m.

Birtle34

Bandwagon fairweathe

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 7,698

Likes: 3,295

Interesting spot for Montreal with the potential of a Caufield 2.0 and possibly Suzuki 2.0 if they trade up instead of back with the Florida pick, benson/danielson would be mighty similar to Caufield/suzuki

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May 12, 2023 at 8:31 a.m.

Birtle34

Bandwagon fairweathe

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 7,698

Likes: 3,295

I wonder what chicago has in the budget to get up to 5, could add kane and panarin with bedard and michkov, would be a wild start to a rebuild.

May 12, 2023 at 8:34 a.m.

jonh514

Thread Starter

HuGo is a Boss GM

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Quoting: MONSTER1974

If we end up up with 6 first round picks, that would be silly!! 😆

Funny

May 12, 2023 at 8:41 a.m.

#10

aedoran

Joined: Dec. 2017

Posts: 21,790

Likes: 12,097

It all depends on who is there at 5. With Detroit's awful lottery luck I think Yzerman has to consider any chance to move up.

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May 12, 2023 at 8:41 a.m.

#11

jonh514

Thread Starter

HuGo is a Boss GM

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Quoting: Birtle34

I don't think they want to go that way. They are looking for 1 offense first player with decent NHL-size. Ideally someone who can break the game open. Michkov would be ideal if not for the risk.

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May 12, 2023 at 8:42 a.m.

#12

jonh514

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HuGo is a Boss GM

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Quoting: aedoran

It all depends on who is there at 5. With Detroit's awful lottery luck I think Yzerman has to consider any chance to move up.

Who do you want at 5?

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May 12, 2023 at 8:44 a.m.

#13

jonh514

Thread Starter

HuGo is a Boss GM

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Quoting: Lancebmx

Make the third your second and I think it's worth it for Detroit, otherwise no thanks.
I'm sure the Blues fans would feel the same way.
I know some Detroit fans will disagree with this.

I'll just say that if we're that close, we can definitely work something out.

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May 12, 2023 at 8:46 a.m.

#14

Lancebmx

Joined: Oct. 2020

Posts: 10,704

Likes: 8,292

Quoting: jonh514

I'll just say that if we're that close, we can definitely work something out.

Yeah, were have discussed it before. I just think the value between #17/18 and #69 is far greater than the value of who is available at #9 and Michkov. That's just me personally. I feel Detroit has a few holes to fill and this draft could really fill a few of them. Doing this trade could actually make us take a step back a bit, or at least not as much of a step forward.

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May 12, 2023 at 8:48 a.m.

#15

JeffFromMontreal

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 313

Likes: 104

This is a super tough one to call!
One on hand, some teams may value the Russian as a top-3 talent in this draft and may want to move up to get him at 5, willing to pay a good price for it. But the return would be only in potential and not young NHL-ready talent. So if you're rebuilding and already have lots of middle-6 and 2nd-3rd pairing young talent, like the Habs, do you go for the high risk, high reward Russian or do you accept that return of 2-3 assets that may be safer, but with a much lower ceiling?
I say swing for the fences and draft the Russian!

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May 12, 2023 at 8:52 a.m.

#16

JoeROFLCOPTER

Joe

Joined: Nov. 2022

Posts: 7,695

Likes: 5,610

Red Wings say yes. Yes Yes Yes. Please make it happen, Yzerman. Please oh please.

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May 12, 2023 at 8:53 a.m.

#17

JoeROFLCOPTER

Joe

Joined: Nov. 2022

Posts: 7,695

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Quoting: jonh514

Who do you want at 5?

One of Michkov, Smith, or Carlsson. One of them has to be there. Hell I'd even look at Benson.

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May 12, 2023 at 8:53 a.m.

#18

JoeROFLCOPTER

Joe

Joined: Nov. 2022

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Quoting: jonh514

I don't think they want to go that way. They are looking for 1 offense first player with decent NHL-size. Ideally someone who can break the game open. Michkov would be ideal if not for the risk.

I think I know who you're insinuating - Matthew Wood? He's a big-goalscorin boy.

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May 12, 2023 at 8:56 a.m.

#19

jonh514

Thread Starter

HuGo is a Boss GM

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Quoting: JeffFromMontreal

I hear you. Glad it's HuGo making the decision and not me.

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May 12, 2023 at 9:06 a.m.

#20

aedoran

Joined: Dec. 2017

Posts: 21,790

Likes: 12,097

Quoting: jonh514

Who do you want at 5?

Probably Michkov because I don't see Carlsson making that far and even if he did Montreal would take him instead of trading the pick.

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May 12, 2023 at 9:14 a.m.

#21

jonh514

Thread Starter

HuGo is a Boss GM

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Quoting: aedoran

Probably Michkov because I don't see Carlsson making that far and even if he did Montreal would take him instead of trading the pick.

If Smith or Carlsson is available, Habs use the pick.

aedoran liked this.

May 12, 2023 at 9:15 a.m.

#22

danielcoe

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 1,258

Likes: 283

Quoting: MONSTER1974

If we end up up with 6 first round picks, that would be silly!! 😆

he is trading the same pick twice it is two scenarios you dont get to do both

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May 12, 2023 at 9:18 a.m.

#23

danielcoe

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 1,258

Likes: 283

9th pick is too late and the russian will be long gone by then so this trade does not make sense.. I see Wash really wanting him and would offer more than det plus they would pick him at 8 anyway 9th pick is just to far as youo could get assests for the 7th pick as well

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May 12, 2023 at 9:19 a.m.

#24

jonh514

Thread Starter

HuGo is a Boss GM

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Quoting: danielcoe

I think he gets picked 5th, by whomever trades us to get him.

May 12, 2023 at 9:25 a.m.

#25

danielcoe

Joined: Jun. 2018

Posts: 1,258

Likes: 283

Quoting: jonh514

I think he gets picked 5th, by whomever trades us to get him.

honestly i think he might go 4th as he could be as good as bedard he is special.... so montreal would wait to see what happens but likely Smith or Clasksson would fall in their lap now if that doesnt happen then they draft him unless someone gives them an off they cant refuse but it would be either ari or philly not det and then the habs have an additionally ist rounder and pick The Rd instead at 6th.... otherwise the habs would just draft the russian

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