Canes pass, Marner has no control

Pass. Marner doesn't fix the goal scoring issues and Necas puts up 75% of the production for 25% of the cost. Necas is 3 years younger and had 25 fewer points. Necas can also play C. No reason to do that

Necas is hot and cold. He hasn’t consistently put up the same number every year. Also I don’t think he will play C for Rod. He isn’t defensive enough. Marner without a doubt would be our best forward and can play PK and trusted in one goal games (selke finalist). I don’t think the canes go for him. He’s going to cost alot and the contract situation isn’t the best for what the canes are building. I feel like we are building to be a playoff team for 10 years straight but never go all in for a cup. While that doesn’t mean we can’t win a cup in that span it’s not managements “goal”. They want long term profits, not cup or bust.

I disagree with Marner being our best forward. So many people see Selke finalist and go "he's good defensively". Marner is fine defensively, but he's not going to be out there with a 1 goal lead. Staal is. Fast( if he re-signs) is, Martinook is. Slavin is. Burns is.

You're right, they want sustained success. It's something the team has never really had. Absolutely fine with that. But they've always deals to make the team better. Even some that were questions (Nedeljkovic, Skinner, Bean). Marner is another pass first winger. He doesn't fix the goal scoring woes. What the Canes needed this playoff run for example was sitting on LTIR with an ACL tear and an Achillies tear. Marner doesn't address needs here.

Marner also plays on Matthews wing. Those totals tend to be increased playing next to one of the greatest goal scorers in the NHL. He doesn't make the Canes a better when he costs roster pieces IMO. If it's futures, different debate. If it's things like Necas, Morrow, Drury, I just don't see it.

Crazy to say a 99 point player doesn’t make us better. I get we don’t want to give up roster players but marner is better than Aho. I’ve seen your argument that centers are more valuable than wingers but that does not mean centers are better than wingers

Centers are more valuable than wingers, especially 1C. If it's Kotkaniemi, slightly different. Finding 1C's is borderline impossible. If Aho never moved to the middle and the Canes were still looking for a 1C, I'd understand this, but I just cannot justify it. Aho is a PPG player in both the regular and post season. He comes through more often than not when the Canes need him. He doesn't play next to Auston Matthews so he doesn't put up 100 points and 70 assists, but Aho has had a 45 goal (pace, it was the Pandemic year, Aho didn't miss any game time) season. I wouldn't give up the player that is undeniably the better goal scorer for Marner because more of Aho is exactly what the Canes need

I agree that centers are more valuable and hard to find. But saying just because Aho plays center makes Im better than marner is laughable. Marner put up Over PPG pace in regular season and playoffs.

No chance Leafs trade Marner for what are essentially futures; albeit Necas is a decent top 6 forward.
Like get a grip - why would the Leafs do that? Are Canes looking to move Aho for draft picks + prospects 🤯?

Aho consistently sits at the PPG mark and doesn't play with Auston Matthews. Look at Marner's stats, you can see when he changed from Tavares' wing to Matthews. I'd much rather have Aho than Marner. Not to mention, Aho's postseason production is better than Matthews' let alone Marners

Are Matthew’s stats inflated due to playing with marner. Did nylander decrease because he played with Tavares? Did Tavares drop not playing with marner. Tavares went up past 2 seasons, as did nulander

Necas had 71 pts this year. He’s 2 years younger, makes less than a third of what Marner makes and could also be a potential long term 2C for you. The thought was that you would flip the other assets in separate deals and could use the 8 million in cap space to improve your roster. I’d give up more value if necessary but Marner’s contract situation limits his value imo.

What? You're arguing Marner inflated Matthews stats, yet Matthews doesn't inflate Marners, and are using Tavares and Nylander as comparables?

Okay, let's dispell this quickly. Nylander was shooting 14% his career average is 12%. He's a point per game player who overachieved a little. Tavares is a ppg player in his own right. He has been literally his entire career.

Matthews' stats improved modestly. Marner's are the outlier. His jumped from 67 to 97 when he and Nylander swapped places. You cannot deny that Matthews had inflated those totals. It's just fact

Marner doesn't break games open. Marner doesn't drive play. Aho does. Aho scores big goals in big moments. Aho's a WAY better goal scorer and that is exactly what the Canes need. It's braindead to try and argue this.

99 points doesn’t drive plays? Aho had 6 more goals than marner. Marner is a selke candidate.

Disagree. We don’t know whether Morrow will improve his defense enough to be an impact player and he’s at least 2 years away. Drury is most likely a 4C on a contender. Necas is valuable and has a lot of potential but his underlying numbers and overall game aren’t close to Marner’s. I’m also not sure goal scoring is our biggest/only problem. Svech and Patches would for sure have been a big help. But our offense can still become pretty one dimensional at times and overly reliant on north south movement, point shots, rebounds etc. Adding a superstar playmaker like Marner could really help us create more high quality chances that can beat even elite goalies. I agree he’s not necessarily a Selke level defensive player but he’s definitely good enough to fit in Rod’s system. You can debate Aho and Marner but we need to give Aho more guys on his level if we want to get over the hump.

I completely agree with almost everything you've said here. I don't know Drury is a 4C on a contender, I could see him on the 3rd line wing of a lot of teams.
Svechnikov and Pacioretty would have helped, but even with Svechnikov this offense wasn't high-flying. Carolina won 2 games with Pacioretty active, he was hurt in both games and didn't see the final whistle. Don't exactly think he's making the difference. Goal scoring is the biggest issue. You can't tell me that a guy coming down with an elite shot isn't going to change this team a ton. It will at least make the powerplay better than mediocre at best. Someone like Kyle Connor is going to be a better fit for that reason. That said, there's a reason I'm not completely against Marner and that is for everything you mentioned. He's good enough defensively to fit Rod's system, albeit he shouldn't be a Selke candidate, he's a gifted skater, and he is talented. I'm against moving for Marner at the cost of Necas (75% production, 25% of the cost) Pesce, or other roster players to make it fit. I think Marner is overvalued, that doesn't mean I don't think there's a very usable player there. In Carolina he's not putting up 99 points, I fear he would struggle to make the 60 mark to be completely honest because this team doesn't have Auston Matthews on it, but he's an upgrade on someone like Teravainen.

You do know that Marner doesn't always play with Matthews right?

Marner had 94 points in 2018-19 playing with Tavares and Hyman. Both Tavares and Matthews had career highs in goals playing with Marner.

If Marner struggles to get 60 pts in Carolina, that would mean that the Hurricanes cannot finish plays. If his numbers come down it should still be in the 90s, with Matthews as his primary linemate his point pace is 100+ (2020-2022).

Marner isnt a great goal scorer by any means but he's an elite playmaker, who could help increase the goal production of the Canes' goal scorers

I give you points for consistency; but being consistently on the wrong side of an argument is a bit dubious 🤨.
I’ll forego any discussion about Marner’s value because we will disagree (I would think vast majority of reasonable nhl Hans would disagree with you) but it’s either next level trolling or stupidity to think you could trade for a player of Marner’s ability and not lose roster pieces. Like the Leafs would ever be interested in prospects & picks 🤯 - you are truly & unbelievably misguided in that attempt

It's almost like playing with a Tavares that was still in his prime would have helped inflate totals too... seeing that was the year Tavares scored 40 goals and everything.

Oh if they're not interested, absolutely fine. But I would not move anything off the roster for him. He's got so many glaring holes in the way he plays that I suspect his current situation is a result of the perfect storm and not because of him being that quality of player

Personally I think Marner > Aho, but rather than argue - for this exercise, values are close enough. .Are the Canes looking to trade Aho? And if you were - would you accept similar package (as proposed here) in return ?
I really have no idea why you think the Leafs would make themselves a worse team by making a trade like this? For cap space 🤯? Contending teams don’t often move it superstars for cap space…

Keep beating that horse - facts aside I guess 😂, back to back 1st team all star, selke nominee, career ppg+ player, near the top in primary assists every year, plays PP1& PK1 on a top 5 team.
Can’t tell if you actually believe this drivel or if you think your commitment to the cause will actually convince Shanny to move Marner for scraps; either way - pretty odd

Yea it’s a fair argument but I do think we need to diversify how we create chances in addition to adding more goal scoring. I’d love Connor but he’s a lot worse defensively than Marner. I also wouldn’t give up Pesce (him and Slavin should retire Canes) but Necas is the only significant roster piece in the deal. I think it’d be worth it but honestly if you switched Marner with Necas and we kept our assets I think this lineup is still better, younger, faster and more skilled than last year and will continue to improve.