Looking to build a tougher team for the playoffs that can still score with a focus on bolstering defense as much as bulking up the forwards. Assume that O'Reilly wants to go back to St. Louis or will want too much $5 mil+ given his age and speed.
Marner as the "big four" trade lottery winner and minimized trades otherwise.
Expect Hellebyuck to re-sign since he wants to win, and the Jets will have scoring from Marner a season beyond trading/purging Scheifele and Wheeler.
Gave a lot to St. Louis since I got told on my last team that I didn't understand how draft picks work (and need the second to offer sheet Kostin).
Leaving 4 million on the table for the cap for extending Matthews and Nylander. Beyond 4 mil (2 more each?), counting on the cap to go up for the 24-25 season to cover other extensions until Tavares retires. Offering several players more term than might make sense to entice them to sign and keep AAV manageable.
Depth players expected to play in times of minor injury or just to mix things up highlighted in Taxi Squad.

Wow, I've got to say, this is really really bad

The Jets aren't trading all that for two years of Marner and spare parts.

But why would the blues do that

First day on the job?

Thanks for nothing.

No, no, be less specific.

How much would they bank on that pick turning into a hidden gem?

helly is looking for 10M supposively. Leafs can't afford that.

So only Hellebuyck? Or More from the Leafs to compete with an LA offer? I cannot imagine they let him walk as a UFA, given that he said he knows his window to win is narrowing.

Wow. No they cannot.

Why would the Blues want to turn their Quarter into a dime and 3 Pennys especially given the dime has serious question marks

Horrid for the Leafs....Is Hellebuyck really that much of an improvement over Samsonov. Stanley is a bare NHLer, Liljgren is a solid NHLer. Let's see Marner is better that Lowry.

I do not think Marner is better than Lowry, but the goal is to shift the team's style away from a regular-season succeeding team, and Marner keeps disappearing in the playoffs compared to Nylander.

I think you overestimate Liljegren and especially Samsonov in comparison to the imagined replacements. I can accept that Hellebuyck is too expensive, but a lateral move from Sammy? Not until age catches up with him.

Holy **** those trades are bad. Looking to win the Lottery or the cup?

You have to trolling if you think 25 point a year player Lowry, a third liner on a middling team, is better than Marner Check Marner's playoff record, certainly better than Lowry. Totally not relevant if Nylander is better than Marner or not. Liljgeren at 1.4m is a bargain. 18 minutes a night, enough points and a plus player. Only Leaf RHD signed beyond next season.
I know stats aren't everything but you can argue that Samsonov was a good as Helly last season and in the playoffs.

The Leafs aren't good trading partners for the Jets. Winnipeg would be looking for young NHL roster or close to roster playerswith lots of team control that fill positions of need for the Jets. Toronto doesn't have those type of assets available.

That's the magic of these toxic forums. The same trade gets criticized as both worthless for the partner team AND self-destruction for the offering team.

I won't comment on the trade values much but that Jets trade only makes the Leafs worse, take it from a Jets fan those guys aren't getting the Leafs to the promised land.

Playing Stanley over McCabe and Gio is insanity.. lol 😆

So, is the premise here that the Leafs can only afford to keep one of Marner or Nylander? Because in comparison to most other superstar players, Marner "disappearing" looks like showing up. His games 5-7 production, might be underwhelming but that just means he's not clutch. You're also not appreciating that Marner does things outside of scoring that matter in the playoffs. It's not all about scoring goals and throwing hits.



A lot of times criticism here isn't reasonable, but it's also possible to propose a deal that doesn't work for both sides.

WPG might not be able to secure Marner beyond the 2-years, but if they retool which is likely, this trade could be worthwhile depending on if 1) Samsonov extends with them and 2) Liljegren finds a spot on the blue line which is likely since they really only have 2 RHD+Schmidt and 5 LD+Heinola (7 if you coun't Schmidt). So, the deal doesn't leave them any worse off than they already are really, even if Marner walks in 2-years.

They can probably then deal Heinola+that 2023 1st+other futures after a Dubois trade for Hayes+Laughton getting them their 1/2C and 3C while further reducing their LD surplus. The final problem would be Scheifele and perhaps dealing with Dillon & DeMelo trades/extensions.

It’s a lot better chance than the crap that was offer for it

I can accept that the trade doesn't work, no question, but the idea that Hellebuyck wants 10 million, but multiple sources, including NHL tonight, say he is concerned about winning, makes that one hard to square.

In terms of Marner vs. Nylander, it comes down to cap value, but we can agree to disagree. I see value in his game, but far more in the regular season than in the playoffs, as is almost a cliche with this core after five playoff runs together. My comments about disappearing are not a function of this season's run alone, but the longer track record. Really, Marner was better in the first round than usual, but hard to see as an $11 mil player compared to like a dozen other forwards who played at least two rounds this year. Given that Matthews seems to have a golden ticket and Tavares has an NMC, moving Marner at $11-ish mil frees up way more space, whatever the exact return, than Nylander at $7-ish mil. If the cap hits were reversed, I'd probably be imagining Nylander trades.

Idk about 10M, but Hellebuyck can still get paid (8M+) and be on a competitive team, he would just need to go to teams on the rise or a team like CAR (if they are willing to fork that kind of money) or VG.

Quite frankly that Leafs Dcore you put together (and the current one) isn't one that instills confidence in terms of being able to compete at a high level for the next 5 years. Treliving is going to look to bolster the D, something you didn't do which makes it less likely for Hellebuyck to think this team has a better chance at winning than WPG (a team he said was on the verge of being a dynasty a few years ago). In terms of forwards all the Leafs have in this ACGM is Matthews, Nylander, and Knies in the long-term.

Marner is still nearly PPG in the Playoffs, fact of the matter is if you are losing in the Playoffs, especially in the 1st round your superstars are probably not producing. Just look at Panarin's worst years, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backstrom in his prime, even Crosby has a bad season. Marner has many but what do you expect with 6 1st round exits. If you look closely, you'll find that guys pick up their production in later rounds as well (e.g. Kucherov last year went from good to betrer, he had a 1.14 PPG rate like Marner after the 1st round, and he ended the playoffs at 1.17, if TB won then it would likely have been much better).

The only players that outproduced Marner that only played two rounds this year are McDavid and Draisaitl and those two are exceptional in terms of playoff performance.

To me it's pretty simple as the Leafs should keep the 3. Tavares should be lumped in the same category as O'Reilly.

The first comment in the thread was that Helly wanted $10M, I did not pick the number out of thin air. I think $8 mil still limits the number of teams with space and competitiveness already, but maybe you are right with a rising team that has a lot of great pre-RFA draftees like Buffalo, but that would still be a big gamble for Helly.

As for Marner, it seems like a chicken and egg argument. The team lost so his numbers were low, or his (and Matthews's in the years previous, esp. vs Montreal) numbers were low, and so the team lost. Again, a big part of the idea was cap space by getting grittier players that might do less in the regular season but more in the playoffs.

I agree about Tavares, but again, he has a full no move.

In terms of defense, you think Soucy and Clifton are no improvement from Holl, Gio a year older, Gustafsson, and Liljjgren?

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I don't think Soucy, Clifton, and Stanley are an upgrade as a group over Holl, Gio (last year), and Liljegren. The goal is to improve from last year as well.

Individually, idk who is better than who but I would like to see how they do in Toronto. As for Stanley, he's a project.