Dubas Ws

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Quoting: Waffelz

Sharks have repeatedly said they will retain $3m max on Karlsson, and getting him at $5.75m will cost an absolutely massive amount.

Quoting: poeticentropy

Karlsson didn't demand a trade bro.
SJ isn't going to eat anywhere close to 50%. They'll keep Karlsson if returns like this is all they see out there for Karlsson.
Expect somewhere around 20-30% retention

Do you people not read the descriptions? I never said Karlsson demanded a trade if you're considering that different than what...you know I actually stated...that he wanted out which is widely reported to be true and the Penguins are the frontrunners with possibly Carolina too. I have already stated that the trade would involve a third team that would either take the full 50% or the remaining 30% while the Sharks would max around 20% if any, so why bother commenting that twice?

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:01 p.m.

#4

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Petry and Carter just say no and none of this happens

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Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:04 p.m.

#5

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Quoting: vikhodush

Petry and Carter just say no and none of this happens

For Petry, sure, obviously there's something holding up the trade from going through with Dubas trying to pry Karlsson out, but Petry would definitely need to be going back.

Carter, as I said in the description, would moreso be up to him if he still wants to play. Worse case, he's spiteful and chooses to watch from the press box every game and we can't move his contract but he should never wear a Penguins jersey again. If he doesn't want to play we can move that contract to Arizona, but if he does there's other teams like Chicago he would probably be more amicable to go to that can take that cap hit for the time being with the phase they're in, and while he's obviously washed would have veteran leadership they want to surround Bedard with.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:08 p.m.

#6

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Jeff Carter "I don't want to move my Family and want to retire a penguin." What about that statement gives any indication he says anything other than F*** off to Dubas when he asks Carter to waive his NMC..
Teams don't give FULL NMC's without concessions from the player in either term or AAV why is him enforcing an agreement he made with the team being "spiteful"?

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Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:08 p.m.

#7

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Quoting: Choino

For Petry, sure, obviously there's something holding up the trade from going through with Dubas trying to pry Karlsson out, but Petry would definitely need to be going back.

Carter, as I said in the description, would moreso be up to him if he still wants to play. Worse case, he's spiteful and chooses to watch from the press box every game and we can't move his contract but he should never wear a Penguins jersey again. If he doesn't want to play we can move that contract to Arizona, but if he does there's other teams like Chicago he would probably be more amicable to go to that can take that cap hit for the time being with the phase they're in, and while he's obviously washed would have veteran leadership they want to surround Bedard with.

He’s got an NMC so you can’t just trade his contract if he’s being “spiteful” and not in agreement with being traded. Not how it works.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:12 p.m.

#8

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Edited Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:18 p.m.

Quoting: Justafan79

Jeff Carter "I don't want to move my Family and want to retire a penguin." What about that statement gives any indication he says anything other than F***off to Dubas when he asks Carter to waive his NMC.

Why are you agressive with it? From a business standpoint Dubas can easily tell Carter "we do not think you have it anymore and you will not be playing for the Penguins this year if you choose to stay others will play over you" whether directly telling him he's a detriment to the team or not it's not his decision whether he plays another game for the Penguins, it's Dubas and Sully's.

Which then, as I've said and referring to your stating he wants to be with his family, it wouldn't matter if his contract got moved he could essentially retire without actually retiring and stay at home. Alternatively, as I've described Chicago being an amicable spot for him if he wanted to continue playing hockey it's close enough and would be a better place to play one last year than Arizona.

Again, it's not up to Carter whether he plays another game for the Penguins.

And as you edited your comment to mention why this would happen when he made an agreement with the team? He made that with Hextall and a different management. This is Dubas looking to fix our team of those bad decisions. It's a business.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:15 p.m.

#9

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Quoting: vikhodush

He’s got an NMC so you can’t just trade his contract if he’s being “spiteful” and not in agreement with being traded. Not how it works.

As I responded to the other comment, you try claiming "it's not how it works" when the facts of the matter are the only people who get to decide if Carter plays another game in a Penguins jersey are Dubas and Sully. They can sit him and play others over him when injuries arrive.

You can't buy him out, so you tell him you can essentially retire but not actually and stay with your family while we move your contract to Arizona, or if you want to play one last year it's not going to be for us and we can move you to Chicago. We can have his contract be deadweight without him in the lineup if he chooses to be spiteful and not go with either of those options and it would still be an improvement than having him in the lineup. NMC really has no weight here for him if he wants to play.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:21 p.m.

#10

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Quoting: Choino

As I responded to the other comment, you try claiming "it's not how it works" when the facts of the matter are the only people who get to decide if Carter plays another game in a Penguins jersey are Dubas and Sully. They can sit him and play others over him when injuries arrive.

You can't buy him out, so you tell him you can essentially retire but not actually and stay with your family while we move your contract to Arizona, or if you want to play one last year it's not going to be for us and we can move you to Chicago. We can have his contract be deadweight without him in the lineup if he chooses to be spiteful and not go with either of those options and it would still be an improvement than having him in the lineup. NMC really has no weight here for him if he wants to play.

Based on how NMCs work and the CBA that governs it, if Carter doesn’t want to retire or allow a trade to occur, that contract would in fact be dead weight and you’d have to just have it on your books until it’s over.

You’re absolutely right Dubas and Sullivan dictate whether or not he plays in PIT ever again. However because he signed a contract with NMC clause in it, that means you can’t do whatever you want with his contract whether you want to play him or not. It is legally binding. I’m not sure how else to spell it out for you.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:27 p.m.

#11

poeticentropy

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Quoting: Choino

Do you people not read the descriptions? I never said Karlsson demanded a trade if you're considering that different than what...you know I actually stated...that he wanted out which is widely reported to be true and the Penguins are the frontrunners with possibly Carolina too. I have already stated that the trade would involve a third team that would either take the full 50% or the remaining 30% while the Sharks would max around 20% if any, so why bother commenting that twice?

Yes, my comment is in response to your:
"teams lose most leverage when the player being traded wants out"

there's a difference between him demanding to be traded versus saying that he is open to a trade and that he prefers to be traded to a contender

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:28 p.m.

#12

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Quoting: vikhodush

Petry and Carter just say no and none of this happens

Quoting: vikhodush

He’s got an NMC so you can’t just trade his contract if he’s being “spiteful” and not in agreement with being traded. Not how it works.

Petry has a modified NTC. I’m sure he’d waive if SJ guaranteed that they retain some and flip him to a decent team. They could get a decent asset for doing so. He is still a top 4 d man, just over paid. Said team likely would be included in the trade for Karlsson. I have no comment on this ACGM, but in regard to Petry what I’ve detailed is pretty damn likely.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:28 p.m.

#13

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Quoting: Choino

Why are you agressive with it? From a business standpoint Dubas can easily tell Carter "we do not think you have it anymore and you will not be playing for the Penguins this year if you choose to stay others will play over you" whether directly telling him he's a detriment to the team or not it's not his decision whether he plays another game for the Penguins, it's Dubas and Sully's.

Which then, as I've said and referring to your stating he wants to be with his family, it wouldn't matter if his contract got moved he could essentially retire without actually retiring and stay at home. Alternatively, as I've described Chicago being an amicable spot for him if he wanted to continue playing hockey it's close enough and would be a better place to play one last year than Arizona.

Again, it's not up to Carter whether he plays another game for the Penguins.

And as you edited your comment to mention why this would happen when he made an agreement with the team? He made that with Hextall and a different management. This is Dubas looking to fix our team of those bad decisions. It's a business.

No he made the agreement with the Pittsburgh Penguins not Ron Hextall and that's how players look at it. For example Dan Boyle Was forced out of TB in 08 because then co-owner Len Barrie (who had been Boyles teammate in FLA and had personal issues with. When he became a free agent and He was asked about signing with TB he responded when they pay me back the $7,000,000 they basically stole from me. Yes I know it's a different ownership,but doesn't matter. So, if players don't see different owners as a different entity most likely a change of GM has less impact.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:29 p.m.

#14

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Quoting: vikhodush

Based on how NMCs work and the CBA that governs it, if Carter doesn’t want to retire or allow a trade to occur, that contract would in fact be dead weight and you’d have to just have it on your books until it’s over.

You’re absolutely right Dubas and Sullivan dictate whether or not he plays in PIT ever again. However because he signed a contract with NMC clause in it, that means you can’t do whatever you want with his contract whether you want to play him or not. It is legally binding. I’m not sure how else to spell it out for you.

We are in fact agreeing it's up in the air if it will happen just like the Karlsson trsde or any move it's an armchair GM roster, but what I will say is "I don't know how to spell it out for you" either because there's three options that happen if we never play him again:

1) Hes deadweight or actually retires (which is what you're hoping to avoid but ultimately better than rostering him)
2) He wants to still play (you work with him to find a team he would waive for like Chicago to make that possible)
3) He thought he would play his last year in Pittsburgh and hearing he won't be played he effectively retires but not in actuality and his contract gets traded to the Coyotes just like others have in the past

Players are also businessmen and adults they're not going to be spiteful about these decisions to purposefully harm the team wanting to move them they'll work to find something suitable. He's not the first old player with a bad contract with a NMC, and it's a relatively minimal cap hit for a team with a lot of space for just one year remaining. I don't know what's got you so pressed on this.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:31 p.m.

#15

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Quoting: JuanDamienNebraska

Petry has a modified NTC. I’m sure he’d waive if SJ guaranteed that they retain some and flip him to a decent team. They could get a decent asset for doing so. He is still a top 4 d man, just over paid. Said team likely would be included in the trade for Karlsson. I have no comment on this ACGM, but in regard to Petry what I’ve detailed is pretty damn likely.

It’s plausible but based on reports it seems like this is one of the stumbling blocks. Maybe the market to flip Petry isn’t too big and SJS are already using up their retention slots. The Petry one is workable but not simple. The Carter one completely depends on what he wants to do despite what the OP thinks.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:32 p.m.

#16

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Quoting: JuanDamienNebraska

Petry has a modified NTC. I’m sure he’d waive if SJ guaranteed that they retain some and flip him to a decent team. They could get a decent asset for doing so. He is still a top 4 d man, just over paid. Said team likely would be included in the trade for Karlsson. I have no comment on this ACGM, but in regard to Petry what I’ve detailed is pretty damn likely.

Don't see many teams interested in petry at that price point

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:33 p.m.

#17

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Quoting: Justafan79

No he made the agreement with the Pittsburgh Penguins not Ron Hextall and that's how players look at it. For example Dan Boyle Was forced out of TB in 08 because then co-owner Len Barrie (who had been Boyles teammate in FLA and had personal issues with. When he became a free agent and He was asked about signing with TB he responded when they pay me back the $7,000,000 they basically stole from me. Yes I know it's a different ownership,but doesn't matter. So, if players don't see different owners as a different entity most likely a change of GM has less impact.

Carter is guaranteed his money in this scenario no matter what happens, so your example isn't the best.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:33 p.m.

#18

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Quoting: Choino

We are in fact agreeing it's up in the air if it will happen just like the Karlsson trsde or any move it's an armchair GM roster, but what I will say is "I don't know how to spell it out for you" either because there's three options that happen if we never play him again:

1) Hes deadweight or actually retires (which is what you're hoping to avoid but ultimately better than rostering him)
2) He wants to still play (you work with him to find a team he would waive for like Chicago to make that possible)
3) He thought he would play his last year in Pittsburgh and hearing he won't be played he effectively retires but not in actuality and his contract gets traded to the Coyotes just like others have in the past

Players are also businessmen and adults they're not going to be spiteful about these decisions to purposefully harm the team wanting to move them they'll work to find something suitable. He's not the first old player with a bad contract with a NMC, and it's a relatively minimal cap hit for a team with a lot of space for just one year remaining. I don't know what's got you so pressed on this.

Lol I’m not pressed, I don’t really care. I also don’t understand why you think Carter has to do anything. He signed a legal contract and he negotiated a full NMC (dumb move by the prior regime no doubt). He’s well within his rights to do as he pleases now. It’s not being spiteful, it’s business like you said.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:40 p.m.

#19

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Quoting: vikhodush

It’s plausible but based on reports it seems like this is one of the stumbling blocks. Maybe the market to flip Petry isn’t too big and SJS are already using up their retention slots. The Petry one is workable but not simple. The Carter one completely depends on what he wants to do despite what the OP thinks.

Yeah, Carter likely isn’t going anywhere unless he retires. Petry, however has moderate value, relatively speaking.

I see that your pic is Rod so I’m assuming you’re a Canes fan. I personally think you guys would be better off using that money elsewhere. Your D is solid and Karlsson and Burns together has proven to be faulty before. You should go for DeBrincat or Tarasenko to get some pure goal scoring in that line up. Just my two cents.

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Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:41 p.m.

#20

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Quoting: Justafan79

Don't see many teams interested in petry at that price point

I said with retention.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:46 p.m.

#21

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Quoting: JuanDamienNebraska

Yeah, Carter likely isn’t going anywhere unless he retires. Petry, however has moderate value, relatively speaking.

I see that your pic is Rod so I’m assuming you’re a Canes fan. I personally think you guys would be better off using that money elsewhere. Your D is solid and Karlsson and Burns together has proven to be faulty before. You should go for DeBrincat or Tarasenko to get some pure goal scoring in that line up. Just my two cents.

Oh I don’t want EK. Not for the cost (both real and opportunity). Would rather add another top 6 piece.

I just don’t think this offer gets it done from PIT.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:48 p.m.

#22

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Quoting: JuanDamienNebraska

I said with retention.

Still don't see anyone paying 3+ for age 36&37 seasons of Petry

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:50 p.m.

#23

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Quoting: Justafan79

Still don't see anyone paying 3+ for age 36&37 seasons of Petry

I certainly can. He is still a top 4 defenseman. I assume we will agree to disagree.

Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:55 p.m.

#24